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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,532 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    99:1 Crowley Starts

    70:30 6-2

    100% Prefer 5-3



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,342 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Before the start of the season, I didn't see any other outcome other than Prendergast at 10 come Chicago, but with the way their respective seasons' have gone, I think Crowley has forced Farrell's hand here. I think he nearly has to start him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I doubt you're the only one, but I'd be pretty shocked.

    Edit: to expound. Those that he has shown loyalty to have generally done something to earn it and I don't see how Prendergast has done that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    It's quite a testament to how things have evolved and where the expectations are for Irish rugby now, that even when our form has been relatively poor and there are question marks around our match sharpness at a minimum, we are still only 5 point underdogs going in to face the All Blacks.

    I'm not confident about the game at all tbh, just feel it's come at the wrong time in the calendar for us. Molecast talked about this recently, that the IRFU are using the window where we were ranked #1 in the world to really cash in and play the biggest teams during these November windows to maximise revenues, but it arguably doesn't always set us up as well as it could outside of the revenue benefit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Is there a separate Ireland A thread?

    I can't see it.

    here's the Spanish Squad

    image.png


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Don't need a general one. Match thread later in week when teams are named.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yago Fernandez, a centre in that squad, played a few games for Terenure in AIL over the last couple of seasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    A reason not to start SP is Jordie Barrett knows his game inside out and in particular his faults, at times he could be seen coaching SP when he was at Leinster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    if i had to put money on either of them starting itd be SP. I dont think he should but i can see it happening



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭50HX


    Benching SP means you have one of your subs who only covers one position.

    Benching Crowley means you have a player that will cover definitely 2 at a push 3 positions.

    I suspect for the nxt 4 games we will see starts split equally between the 2 no 10's.

    After that its whoever has grabbed the jersey to nail a more permanent starting role.

    If SP doesn't start v NZ then he simply must start v SA otherwise its not learning the most about him esp if a pack is on the back foot.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I wouldn't be surprised, the unknowable is that Crowley has been playing very well which isn't something we'd have said at any stage last season, he played ok maybe, but not as much daylight as we've seen this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Don't mind who plays 10 but really hope we don't go 6-2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Completely agree. It’s never a black and white call although some people would like to portray it as that with regards the two of them.

    Crowley wasn't playing particularly well last year but has been very good so far this year. Prendergast on the other hand looks like he’s having a bit of second season syndrome after some very good performances last year. I thought he deserved the shirt last year in the 6N but I’d definitely pick Crowley on current form. It could all be reversed come 6N time depending on how the next few months go but isn’t that what we want in every position on the pitch?!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,025 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Whose the backup to Keenan at Leinster. Is it Osbourne or one of the O'Brien lads? If it's one of the brothers then why are people picking Osbourne at full back?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,168 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I remember watching Crowley play at Franklin's Gardens in January and he was brilliant. He was the single reason why Munster stayed in that game (which they ultimately lost). So to me he had rediscovered his form just as the 6Ns came round again, but by then the die was cast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,052 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts




  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,287 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Brothers??

    Osbourne started at full back in his first four test games.

    Jamie is the most valid option there currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭ersatz


    The O Briens aren't brothers, the Osbornes are (I think).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,025 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Are they not brothers? I always thought they were.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,470 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    The answer is Osborne seems to be the back-up at the moment. It was Jimmy o Brien a couple of years ago. JOB was in Ireland squads at the time and was starting a lot at full back for leinster around the same time.

    Jamie Osborne was around but hadn't really broken through at the time. Since he's broken through he's looked best at 12 (in my opinion) , but he's being shoehorned into squads in full back, on the wing and at 13 (I think). Barrett kept him out of 12 last year when he might have competed with Henshaw for the 12 jersey. And this season Keenan is injured so they seem to be focusing on playing him at 15 for both leinster and Ireland. Open to correction on that, but that's how I remember it.

    Beyond that, the 3 O'Brien twins - Jimmy is out of favour (not sure why), Tommy is in favour and they're both being coached by older brother, Seán



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Crowley's poor form last season is totally over-egged on here, can't for the life of me figure out why! He had some very good performances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Im not sure any of his performances last year before the 6N put him ahead of SP in many peoples minds. He wasn't 'poor' but he wasn't doing enough to hang onto the jersey either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    That may indeed be so or I may disagree, but I will say it's odd how we don't/didn't see that replicated across the team.

    There have been occasions where players have been playing like drains and others can't get a look-in.

    FWIW I find it bizarre that a young 10 who had just lead his team to their first trophy in donkey's years and an Ireland team to the Six Nations on the 'difficult' year would be jettisoned so quickly on the back of performances like Crowley had put in. Just one of the calls Farrell got wrong (and that's okay, he's not infallible), think we jumped the gun on SP a bit too early.

    Maybe he'll (SP) have a storming AIs and 6Ns and all will be well and we'll have two strong contenders for the jersey, which is good.

    Post edited by leakyboots on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    completely agree, he wasnt at his best but his form hadnt completely evaporated either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Picking Crowley now that he's playing well does not mean that dropping him when he was playing less well was a mistake.

    The Farrell critics here always complain he does not pick on form, but like it or not, 12 months ago and continuing on into the 6N, Prendergast was the guy in form and got picked. And still Farrell got absolutely roasted. "can't for the life of me figure out why!"

    Now Prendergast is in a slump, Crowley looks to be in form and will likely get the nod. I don't see the problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I think the more pressing question is what shape Ireland's attack is going to take, and whether it will be shaped around the OH or vice versa. Do they want to build around a multiphase passing attack, or something closer to what Munster have been doing?

    I hope we see a similar jump in performance under Goodman, that we saw under Catt in the 2021 Nov games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,247 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Is this grounded in reality at all or what? And would anybody here think anything of it? I find it surprising given the number of exciting specialist wingers I see playing in the Prem these days. What’s Pollock’s kicking like, for example?

    Steve Borthwick is considering playing his fast-rising back-row Henry Pollock on the wing at some stage this autumn as he seeks fresh impetus in all areas before the looming November Tests.

    The England head coach says he wants his side to hit the ground running against Australia on Saturday and may also start Ben Earl at centre this season.

    Post edited by Ardillaun on

    Always watch the quids, Lilly. I don’t say they mean everything, but watch them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,470 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    As I remember it, he wasn't good at the start of the season*. As pointed out above, he had turned it around by the 6N but it was too late from an Irelandperspective. I thought he was on good form by the end of the season

    *Munster were also poor at the start of last year and the coach left at about 5 games in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,470 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Isn't that what happened to France against Ireland last year? They had a 6:2 bench and injuries forced the 7 to play on the wing from early in the game. So they're training for 6:2 contingencies?

    Has anyone suggested he's planning to start Pollock on the wing?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Crowley was coming into the new year with a 29% goalkicking success rate in the URC. His kicking from hand was no better - he was missing touch from penalties, aimlessly kicking from hand. He was very poor - it is absolutely not being overegged. He got a lot better after the new year.

    And yes, I'm sure some of it is explainable about the coaching turmoil.



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