Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

 warranted better treatment

Crowley is getting the exact same 'treatment' as the other 40-whatever players who are in the mix for the international squad. You play well, you train well, you hope the selections go your way - sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. That's all it is. Crowley leapfrogged Carbery and Healy at Munster, then Ross Byrne for Ireland when Sexton was on the way out, I don't think anyone was too worried about how they were "treated".

This is professional sport, I'm sure Crowley is mature enough to understand it and he'd be embarrassed by some of the drivel that gets spouted on his behalf here. I assume (and I fervently hope) that he knows his form dipped badly last season and he's going to right those wrongs, starting with last week.

This is the core of the issue as to why Farrell is so unpopular with some posters here. The non-selection of certain players can't be viewed purely in rugby terms, it has to be turned into something personal and vindictive. It's the same mentality that means people can only explain Prendergast's selection by wanting to sell jerseys, pander to the meeja or placate Sexton.

This is not honest debate.

Most of your post is biased BS but this trope deserves particular dismantling imho:

"As others have said - claiming we won a 6N with Crowley, and failed to with Sam, kind of ignores the fact we won 4/5 in both seasons."

Ireland played England and France at home last season, so it should have been the 'easy' year in 6Ns terms. With Prendergast at 10, Ireland royally fupped it up imho, only coming 3rd!!

In 2024, Crowley won the 6Ns with an Ireland team that had to go away to France, & away to England, to play them in their own back yards. The challenge of winning a 6Ns away from home against the big 2, and actually pulling it off, totally dwarves coming third in 2025, with both England & France at home , when SP started at 10.

Last year Ireland were stuffed by France, a total thrashing at home in Dublin. The year previously, Ireland beat France well away in France, & just narrowly lost to an excellent England in Twickenham.

Also a rabble of a Welsh team really rattled Ireland in 2025, & damn nearly beat them, with Prendergast acting as a friendly traffic cop steering Welsh players towards the Irish line instead of, I dunno, maybe tackling them occasionally !?.... ..

It's perfectly clear to any unbiased observer imho that currently Crowley is the better , more complete international 10. Prendergast probably needs to apprentice more with Leinster for a couple of more seasons, before he's fully ready for international level imho, assuming he ever will be... which I sincerely hope he will be, some day.

"turned on it's head" - we scored two tries with Crowley on the field and two with him off the field. Crowley had a negligible involvement in either try (zero involvement in one of them).

For Dan Sheehan's try - Crowley doesn't touch the ball in the whole sequence from when England kick deep to us till Sheehan scores. Keenan fields the kick, JGP throws into a pod of forwards in midfield where Sheehan carries it on, Sheehan plays it back on the inside to Conan who makes the big linebreak. JGP passes from the next ruck, hitting Doris, who plays it to Henshaw, who whips it wide to Sheehan. Sheehan sends it wide to Lowe, who beats his man before putting it back inside to Sheehan to finish. Wow! Bravo Jack Crowley on that one!

For Tadhg Beirne's try - a two-phase score off a 5-man lineout, Crowley takes one initial pass from JGP and plays a 2 yard pass to Henshaw outside him who carries to the line. JGP plays it off the deck to James Lowe who has hidden behind the ruck, and breaks the line into a 3v2 before feeding it back to Beirne to score. Once again, another score that you couldn't claim has Jack Crowley's fingerprints all over it, could you?

On the first try - JGP is set to box kick, and gets a late call from Prendergast to attack. Prendergast takes the pass from JGP, and hits Ringrose, who actually pulls off the telling pass to Lowe out wide. Lowe breaks the line, and plays it back in to JGP. Once again, our 10 hasn't really been central to this try.

The second try - Prendergast does have a meaningful involvement - it's multi-phase attack again, but he plays the significant pass, a beautiful right to left pass where he recognises England have gotten narrow, which takes out two English defenders and gives Aki a 1v1 versus the English out half, who can't stop him.

Of all four tries- the Aki try is the only one where our 10 had a meaningful involvement.

We also conceded two tries after Crowley came on (versus one with Prendergast on), and Crowley absolutely did miss a poor tackle on Theo Dan before their final try.

Claiming the England game as some sort of great evidence of Crowley's superiority over Prendergast simply doesn't stand up to even a simple level of scrutiny.

I dunno why I'm bothering engaging with someone who starts off the post by claiming it's "biased BS", but here it goes:

Ireland collapsed against France at home, having been in a clear position to win the game. But you somehow believe this is entirely on the 10?

We conceded 42 points that day - but Jack Crowley came on the field for the last 25 mins (when we were 12 points down - 13-25). We went on to concede another couple of tries (17 points total), is he totally absolved of any criticism for that performance?

We won in 2024 because we caught a shell shocked French team on the hop in Marseille, but claiming that's even largely down to Jack Crowley's performances is farcical.

It's perfectly clear to any unbiased observer imho that currently Crowley is the better , more complete international 10

This is probably the most laughably ridiculous part of the whole post though.

Why are Andy Farrell & Co not deemed to be unbiased observers?

Conan starting at 8 would be a very short term plan. Conan is 33 now and will be 35 at the next world cup. He's great as bench impact but I think his impact around the pitch when he starts will reduce significantly in the next season or 2. Could well be too old by the world cup.

I'd keep him in the bench impact roll and try new starters.

For that matter, VDF is less than a year younger so he might well make it to the world cup, but he won't be any better than he is now. Sounds crazy because hes playing well but it's worth considering options at 7 too.

I think there are a few possibilities:

1. The Irish coaches think that Prendergast is a better player than Crowley.
2. The Irish coaches think that Prendergast is a better fit for the current system (i.e. a greater focus on kicking and less on multi phase attack) than Crowley.
3. The Irish coaches wanted to quickly establish a second viable option at 10, and so decided to heavily prioritise Prendergast to accelerate his development.

Cathal Forde has played more provincial minutes than Aki in each of the past *three seasons, I think that transition has already started at Connacht at least.

Translate to what? The post I responded to was about backing younger options at 12, I was simply pointing out that most of Connacht's minutes are going to a 24 year old.

At Leinster the quality of minutes is probably also a factor, as there's a bit of a disparity between getting a hit out in the first choice 23 in Europe vs being sent to South Africa with the kids.

Yes but the Irish yellow cards were a product of consistent French pressure.

You can't say if only:

• Ireland didn't concede yellow cards
• France didn't score 4-5 tries against that Ireland team
• The Irish Outhalf SP had made his tackles (like hello !!)
• The whole Irish defensive system wasn't compromised trying to hide SP from the opposition
• SP would attack the line better, so that the opposition rush defence couldn't press Ireland so effectively
• SP had a decent attacking threat himself, so that he might be able take some pressure off his outside centres & keep the (French) defence honest (you know like Crowley does..)
• My aunt had balls, cos then she could be my blooming uncle!!

These are all glaring facts easily evident from this game & others imho (bar the last one... :) )

Fact is, France hammered Ireland at home this year in the 6Ns, where SP the young rookie outhalf was brutally exposed, & Ireland folded under the ensuing pressure e .g. check out his missed tackle & being totally out run for the 3rd French try as a for instance !! (3rd out of 4 or 5 or something ridiculous!!!)

France haven't thrashed Ireland like that for over a decade, and for over 20 years in Ireland!! Wakey, wakey lads!!!

Yet, Ireland with Crowley at 10, beat that French side handily in the 2024 6Ns match in France

Just sayin...

You're tying yourself up in knots because your basic premise is so irrational (he's only being picked to sell jerseys or whatever it was), there's no argument you can make that will stand up to even basic scrutiny.

For example;

Ireland with Crowley at 10, beat that French side handily in the 2024 6Ns match in France

That's as meaningless as saying that Ireland, with Crowley at 10, lost to England in 2024 but a year later with Prendergast at 10, they won. It's technically true but utterly irrelevant.

Now, you and the rest of them will come back and say, oh, Crowley had to dig us out against England. Again, it's bollocks, but by the same "logic", we were heading for a series defeat in SA thanks to Crowley's incompetence, and Ciaran Frawley had to bail us out.

So, we should be picking Frawley ahead of either of the other two?

Of course we shouldn't, but if you were true to your own arguments, that's what you should be pushing for.

You're angry because the guy you wanted to be picked is not being picked. That's absolutely fine, but trying to dress it up as dispassionate logic and analysis is completely futile.