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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Of course it is an opinion. Backed up by 3 successive Irish coaches I might add.

    I would not be surprised if Crowley starts in the Autumn, he has started the season better and looks to be more involved in phase play (a massive issue with his playing last season that people just glossed over). It is a close competition between two incomplete players. The wildly successful Irish coach (and his 2 replacements during the season) are not so stupid as to miss such a glaring quality gap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭daithi7


    I stated my opinion, as an opinion i.e. imho. Maybe try actually reading the post first, I find it always helps...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,297 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Another fact is that playing Cardiff at home and the Bulls away are two very different propositions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    You got me.

    But to be perfectly honest, and in my defence once you tethered your argument to two 9 word headlines I stopped paying complete attention.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭daithi7


    In my initial post, I did also attach the match reports of both matches which includes analysis of both respective 10's performances in their games. It is yet more corroboration of my opinion that there is a significant quality gap between the two 10s....

    Here it is again fyi, enjoy.

    20251006_190332.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    You saw a headline you liked, you posted it, well done you .

    Let's just ignore the quality of opposition and circumstance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    We're also ignoring that Prendergast played quite well at the weekend. If he was missing all his kicks, tackles or failing to dictate play that's one thing. But he was finding space behind to turn the Bulls backfield defence, put runners into space and made some tough place kicks. It wasn't perfect, but that's a performance you should be encouraged by.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Jeez... seriously!?, if that's playing well, we have different standards of what playing well is for an international 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Ehh, no , wrong again for yet a 3rd time!?! Quite a hatrick!!

    FYI, I watched both URC games with Munster & Leinster playing in them, both of which I thoroughly enjoyed. I did note to myself the gulf in quality in the performances I observed of the respective 10s mind you.

    Then I also read about them in the Sunday Times, who also noticed the performance difference, so much so that they highlighted the respective Irish 10s performances in both their headlines, & their comprehensive match reports.

    I attached those same match reports to my initial post FYI , along with highlighting both report's headlines, because they also summarise my opinion succinctly. I posted them on here to encourage open discussion on same…

    FYI, here are the video highlights of both games from the weekend for your perusal also. It's interesting to genuine Irish rugby supporters imho, to objectively compare the quality of the respective 10s performances imho. Enjoy!!

    Munster 23 Cardiff 20

    https://share.google/qhNGDOO8ZU8XCqPeC

    Bulls 39 Leinster 31

    https://share.google/wXPgDHoVTvueOlM76

    Post edited by daithi7 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,539 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    You're just arguing in bad faith now.

    Best of luck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Care to address my point of different quality of opposition?

    No, thought not.

    You heard what you liked in a Sunday paper and came to gloat and sh*t upon a young Irish player .

    Well done you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Frankly, I don't care to engage with you further at all. Like ever tbh. You've been plain wrong on 3 successive occasions in replying to my posts. You then stupidly jump to hasty incorrect conclusions which, I've painstakingly highlighted for you to correct, or apologise for, or whatever....

    And then you follow this triple whammy of own goals by posting an abusive, foul mouthed post with derogatory accusations...

    And you then you ask me to engage with you in debate...

    "You cannot be serious!?"

    P.s. I'll only ever be seeking an ignore button for the likes of you fella, cheerio!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Get asked a question twice, fail to answer and bail.

    The 101 of brain dead Internet posting.

    Bye



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Surely you’re taking the piss?

    Munster scraped a win at home to Cardiff while also allowing them to get 2 bonus points, the same Cardiff who finished in the bottom half of the table last year, didn’t win any game that wasn’t on Welsh soil last season, haven’t won a game on Irish soil since they beat Connacht in 2017 and have have never won a game in Thomond Park whereas Leinster played Bulls, runners up in the URC last season and in 3 of the last 4 seasons, away in South Africa, at altitude and with only about 5 players that you could call first team starters.

    What happened in any position on them 2 pitches, let alone at 10, can in no way be used as a direct measure between the capability’s of any of the players involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,593 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Ok so, compare the two players over the last two 6Ns. Relatively the same coaching ticket, group of players, game plan over the two years and Crowley helped Ireland win the 2024 competition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Why? That’s not what the OP I was replying to originally posted about or alluded to.

    It’s also been done to death here a thousand times and the reality is, no matter how much it pains Munster supporters to hear it, that aside from his defensive problems, Prendergast is the better all round player to Jack Crowley, and confirmation of that can be seen from the English and Munster men (so obviously no blue tinted glasses involved) coaching Ireland that have consistently selected him over Crowley.

    There’s nothing to say that can’t or won’t change at any stage of the season and if it does change then from an Irish perspective I hope it’s because Crowley improves and overtakes Prendergast and not because Prendergast starts regressing at any of the other parts of his game but at the minute it’s the position we’re in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭50HX


    Crowley came in after the WC & we won a 6N.

    SP came in at the AI's as is the perogative of the coach to have a look at an alternative.

    What may have surprised people is SP became the starting outhalf on tne following 6N's.

    I didn't see him light it up to the degree that he is the better 10, the next 8 international games will tell alot.

    Its tricky to compare them at club level as SP will invariably be playing behind a dominant pack & thus more on the front foot.

    My gut says Farrell will stick with SP as the preferred 10.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ok….they both helped their team win 4 out of 5 matches.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,287 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Jesus Christ, give me sexton v o gara any day over this shite.

    Two young players, neither perfect, both great talents. The cream will rise to the top no matter what slurry is spouted here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,593 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Why? Because you don't want to compare who plays who in the league so I thought comparing the one competition that Ireland played in with the two out halves featuring might be more relevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,593 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Well yes, that's probably what Andy said to the lads after this years 6Ns, well done lads we achieved exactly what we achieved last year. Congratulations, so proud of you all.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The difference in Ireland's performance from 2024 to 2025 is one losing bonus point. They would have easily won the 6N the previous year on that score.

    Tournaments are complicated, and obviously beyond them being complicated they are not defined by one player and things change year from year. We just about got over the line against Italy in 2025 with Crowley starting. Our worst result against Italy since we lost to them in 2013. I obviously don't blame Crowley cause that would be silly. We were not as good a team in 2025 as in previous years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭DBK1


    By all means compare them in the league, but compare against the same teams. So you’ll have to wait until Munster play Bulls in SA or Leinster play Cardiff to have some sort of equality.

    If Crowley starts for Ireland in Paris against France in the 2026 6 nations and Prendergast starts in the Aviva against Wales, or vice versa, would you think it’s fair to use them 2 games as an identical measure of their (or any 2 other competing players in any other position) capabilities?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,593 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I compared them over one tournament not one game. Look this seems to be causing you some grief so I'm willing to let it die.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    thats not the reality at all though, apart from defence crowley definitely poses more of an attacking threat himself for one, both are relatively evenly matched otherwise (id have argued that SP tackling problems were overstated but i am starting to think it is a bit of a problem for him) and the consensus is that SP has a 'higher ceiling' (whatever that even means really). i dont think SP has really lit things up for ireland so far apart from the scotland game (and i personally really dont rate scotland at all these days), crowley has been a bit up and down for ireland since the start of the AIs last year, playing quite well against argentina and england when he came on but maybe not hitting the heights he is able to against italy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭DBK1


    You didn’t compare them, you asked me too.

    It’s causing me no grief, I just showed you how the comparison being used from this weekend is not a fair comparison and I would have said the same also if it was Munster had lost a tough game and Leinster had won a handy game and people were trying to put down Crowley, and how far more knowledgeable and qualified people, ie the current Irish coaches, than you or I could ever dream of being have compared them and have obviously saw more in Prendergast than they have in Crowley.

    I know from reading your posts here for years that you’re never going to admit to being wrong, I’m sure it would cause you a serious amount of grief to do that, so yep we can let it die there if you like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,593 ✭✭✭✭phog


    It certainly would be silly to lay it on Crowley because you know the issues that day was error after error after error from very senior players across the field

    Laying the blame on Crowley for what happened in Rome is akin to blaming the loss to the All Blacks on Crowley despite we being ahead when he was subbed off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 26,593 ✭✭✭✭phog


    And that trust in Sam might well have cost them a 6Ns.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭DBK1


    I don’t think either of them have really lit it up for Ireland. They both have different strengths and weaknesses, neither of them is a complete player at the moment but in the eyes of the coaches Prendergast is currently shading it.

    I would like to see the starting position being shared between them in the AI’s, with one starting against NZ and the other against SA.



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