Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

"What advantages?"

"There obviously are advantages"

"[the advantage is] not an aspect exclusive to Leinster by any means."

To be fair, you really sound back and forth on this, FTD.

Add in population, facilities, the government and business capital of the country etc. Other provinces simply cannot compete to the same scale.

What does the "government and business capital of the country" do exactly for the production of young rugby players?

I'm not denying there are advantages - but it's mostly a numbers game. The largest population will obviously result in a larger quantum of players being produced. There are more private schools with excellent facilities and excellent coaching so you would expect Leinster to produce more players.

However, all that being said - it shouldn't be as skewed as it has become. Two schools - Rock & Michaels, produce roughly 20% of all professional rugby players (senior squads and academies) in the country. They have a combined enrolment of less than 2,000 students and Rock has a very small boarding contingent. It's more than just money and demographics there — it's a cultural issue as well.

What does the "government and business capital of the country" do exactly for the production of young rugby players?

Meant as a general advantage, not just for production of young players. More businesses will want to associate their brand, name and sponsorship to Leinster leading to more money coming in than other provinces can realistically hope to achieve in terms of sponsorship.

Again, it is an advantage that other provinces can't compete with at the same scale.

More businesses will want to associate their brand, name and sponsorship to Leinster leading to more money coming in than other provinces can realistically hope to achieve in terms of sponsorship.

If this is true, and we don't know definitively if it is, but presuming it is, you think the largest factor in this is the location of Leinster as the "government and business capital of the country" and not the success of the team and the public perception of it as a highly capable and well run organisation?

What about the fact alone that the primary headline sponsor for Leinster and Munster is the same company?

Agreed - that criticism is the same I've levelled in my own post, and entirely warranted.

But the very real problems are handwaved away a bit. You refer to Ulster being in a "different" situation financially - that's true as far as it goes. But "much more difficult situation" is a fairer and more useful assessment, if you actually want to understand the issues facing the province.

No-one ever asks, "should the IRFU do something to combat or ameliorate these disadvantages?" It's a given that Ulster should just suck it up and that the IRFU should just shrug.

I think that's very fair, and in general, Ulster are kind of the forgotten province to a certain extent in Irish Rugby, with the vast majority of fans utterly oblivious to the issues you've highlighted.

I know there are very real demographic issues at play too in terms of losing players to the UK etc at certain levels too, which is obviously a much more real issue in Ulster than elsewhere.

I think it would be reasonable for the IRFU to do more to ameliorate the financial disadvantages Ulster have.

No, that's not it - the advantages Leinster have they have always have. The massive deviation in quality player production over the past 15 years or so (versus the preceding 40 or 50 years) isn't because of something that's largely always been the case, it's about 80% (in my view) attributable to significantly better management over the period than other factors.

And again. I literally haven't claimed this.

The massive deviation in quality player production over the past 15 years or so (versus the preceding 40 or 50 years)isn't because of something that's largely always been the case

Post after post misrepresenting what I'm saying.

Because Leinster are now incredibly well run.

And a large part of that is taking advantage of those inherent advantages.

Simple question in return - what advantages do you think Leinster have?

listening to a podcast w Connors and SOB talking about club rugby in Kildare/Carlow and Clongowes and Connors talked about a new principle in Clongowes who is really into rugby and heavily invested in facilities there which has had a knock on effect on player production to pro and for clubs in the hinterland. That is the essence of Leinster’s advantage. A ton of rugby mad schools in an arms race producing a steady stream of better and better players. Leinster is well run and takes full advantage of its resources, etc. but it’s like a farmer on good land v a farmer on poor land. One is set up to succeed far more than the other, assuming they both know what they’re doing.

The IRFU is paying for it but the current status quo has led to the most successful period in Irish rugby history.

You haven't made any argument as why it makes sense for them to change this status quo - the status quo that you have in posts shown is already leading to a significant number of players already moving between provinces.

It is telling that so much breath is consistently wasted by media and posters on coming up with new methods to pull Leinster back rather than focusing on how the other provinces can get their act together and run better so the IRFU might get a better return on their investment (at times they would have gotten a better ROI from your house and MBA than the money wasted in the other provinces) .

The IRFU also agreed that the other provinces cant be trusted to have free rein with the money and in addition to it being ring fenced it will also be closely monitored.

You focusing on just the part that you did is as telling as always

As much as it is a tacit acknowledgement that the other provinces can't be trusted to spend the money on player pathways and need IRFU monitoring so they improve their poor performance.

Despite some of the protestations on here at the time who constantly pointed the finger at Leinster and the IRFU rather than towards the other provinces that had significant resources pumped into the them which they squandered.

Depends which way you want to spin it.

One thing that can’t be spun any more is the notion that anyone who thought the Central Contract situation needed changing was..

…fanning flames of resentment about a massive problem they claim exists

I think that was it.