Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Every kid coming out of the schools system is a supporter of their provincial team and would probably quit the professional journey before going elsewhere as the colour of the jersey is deeply & emotionally ingrained in their dream to become a professional rugby player . As they get further into their journey that emotional attachment is replaced with the reality of the competitive environment / ruthless selection process and the thought process then transitions to the practical realities of what they need to do to stay in the game. Moving then becomes a more feasible route born out of necessity not emotion. But that takes a few years and those who think it can be forced through a top down IRFU selection process are I feel misguided.

I think there's a balance to be struck between the needs of the national team versus provincial identity.

A full-on 'draft' system has often been suggested here but is totally unworkable, but I would also agree with you that I think it gets overstated how much the average fan wants to see local lads coming through - if it means more success or more players from your province in the national team, I think most people would be OK with those players coming from elsewhere.

At the same time, I think the number of players who could have become test-level but withered on the vine in their home team is negligible. I know Humphreys talked about this before he took over but I'd be surprised if he has a long list of names. It was heavily suggested he was talking about Jack Conan and/or Max Deegan - the former has done just fine, and the latter was just never good enough.

TLDR: I think the current case-by-case system is probably the best way of doing it.

Plus - Gus is going to get plenty of minutes this year. With Sheehan and Kelleher coming off a Lions tour, he’s going to be our first choice hooker probably through to the European Cup.

If he can show he’s more reliable than Kelleher at the issues Kelleher struggles at (mostly lineout accuracy) then he could feasibly push ahead of him. I’m not sure of this as it’s been a bit of an issue for Gus at times too, but he’ll definitely not lack for opportunities in the short term.

some people forget that the provincial system is largely the child of professionalism. Before that provincial teams played each other for a shield and the focus and identity of rugby was in clubs. That amounted to a hundred odd matches between WW2 and 2000. The club competition was far more significant.

guys who are well into their careers who can make a decent wage. That is not who we are discussing. It’s young schools and academy players who are relevant to this discussion. Far more players already move between provinces that abroad tho.

maybe i didnt explain it in the best way, but if you are bringing conway (and to a lesser extent beirne) in the conversation i dont think you get what i was saying

I was being a bit flip but I do get your point, I don't think it's a big issue though. Very few Munster fans care that either Conway or Beirne came out of Leinster and their concerns with the team being mostly made up of provincial imports rather than local players has a lot more to do with a genuine anxiety that the club/school system in Munster isn't delivering the goods, rather than the principle that players in red should have Munster blood flowing through their veins.

I'd say that is even more pronounced when younger.

A star schools player who is focused on rugby but also wants to go to college with their friends in Dublin and play for their childhood team and the IRFU tells them no. If their options are to leave home and go to Limerick or leave home and get significantly more money to go to the likes of Toulouse or La Rochelle. I know what I am picking 100 times out of 100.

As a nation we've had incredible success with a near zero loss of young top class players to foreign clubs. It is crazy to want to mess with that for minimal potential gains.

Yeah but realistically if a young player isn't getting a contract out if the academy, then they won't get offers from Toulouse or La Rochelle. If they got the opportunity to prove themselves in the academy, then they'd probably either get a senior contract or they might get a lifeline from one of the other provinces - if they're lucky.

Milne and Baron are out of the academy but good recent examples, and I doubt Toulouse was calling to get either of them to sign.

We aren't talking about young players who aren't getting contracts out of the academy - that is the system we already have right now.

The poster is talking about forcing players to move that their own provinces want.