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Double Jeopardy

  • 01-12-2024 08:13PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭


    A purely hypothetical situation.

    A person is charged with murder and is tried by judge and jury in the Central Criminal Court. He is acquitted and leaves the court.

    Outside he gives an interview where he admits killing the victim.

    Does the state have any recourse against the person after the admissions made?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,133 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    As best I know he can be rearrested and he can face a second trial. I don't think this falls into the double-jeopardy category that you hear about in America



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,863 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    You can't be re-arrested for the same offence unless new evidence comes to light.

    Something said in an interview would not constitute new evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,133 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    surely a legitimate and verified confession (not just something said) constitutes new evidence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,863 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    The OP said "outside he gives an interview" - that's not evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,133 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes, but it’s what he says in the interview. He confesses to the crime: “Outside he gives an interview where he admits killing the victim.”
    Surely this confession is evidence? If not, why not? And would a confession to the crime ever constitute new evidence?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    How is this confession either "legitimate" or "verified"?

    Perhaps he confessed out of bravado, or out of a desire to annoy the authorities, as some kind of revenge for being prosecuted? Perhaps he did it to make it more difficult for the state to prosecute his mate Jimmy for the crime, Jimmy being the next most likely suspect?

    There are a couple of issues here, but the first one is the rule against hearsay evidence.

    If I go into court, swear an oath, and testify that "I heard Walshb say that they saw HeidiHeidi stabbing A350-900", that is not admissible as evidence that HeidiHeidi stabbed A350-900. It's what lawyers call "hearsay". All we know is that there's a claim that HeidiHeidi stabbed A350-900, but we have no way of evaluating that claim. If the state wasn't to prosecute Heidiheidi for stabbing A350-900, they are going to have to bring Walshb into court to testify about what they saw.

    If I go into court and say "Heidiheidi told me that she stabbed A350-900", that's also hearsay. I'm not testifying that I saw Heidiheidi stab A350-900, just that I've heard that she did.

    There are many exceptions to the hearsay rule, and one exception deals with confessions. Despite being hearsay, confessions can be admitted in evidence, but there are conditions — a confession must be voluntary; it must not be obtained by threats, oppression or inducements; etc. For preference, confessions should be in writing; they should be signed; they should have been made after the accused has been cautioned and has been afforded the chance to take legal advice; etc.

    So, is evidence of this confession admissible? Probably, yes. And, if admitted, it can be the "new and compelling evidence" required to get around the double jeopardy rule in Ireland? There might be a problem there. To be "compelling" for these purposes, the new evidence has to be, among other things, "reliable".

    In the real world what happens after someone make a public statement admitting an offence is that he is arrested, interviewed and invited to make a formal confession, attended by the usual safeguards, in writing, signed, etc, and it's that confession that will be used in any subsequent court proceedings.

    What if he's arrested, interviewed, etc and refused to make a formal confession? In that situation he's almost certainly going to repudiate the confession that he made at the courthouse door and offer a reason as to why he made a false claim to have committed the crime.

    So, the issue will come down to this: is the courthouse door statement reliable? Given his account of the circumstances in which he made it, and the reasons he now offers for repudiating it, and given all the evidence adduced by the defence at the first trial to show that he didn't/couldn't have committed this offence, is this confession reliable? If it isn't, then it's not "new and compelling evidence", and there can be no second trial. That'll be the first issue thrashed out in any attempted re-prosecution.

    If the confession is ruled to be reliable, then there'll be a second trial and the confession can be put before a jury. But the fact that it's reliable doesn't mean that the jury will rely on it. Remember, for him to be convicted in the second trial the jury has to be satisfied of guilt beyond reasonable doubt, so if the jury thinks there's a reasonable possibility that the courthouse door statement might have been false, the prosecution will fail. And, again, they'll be looking at all the circumstances in which he made the statement, what he said about it later in the police interview, what he says about it now, plus the evidence of the defence at the first trial. So there could be a second trial and a second acquittal.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,407 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    If you personally heard someone say or do something, that's direct evidence.

    If someone told you that someone else said or did something, that's heresay.

    As for making a statement outside of court, those alleged actions would have to be proved, as those comments could later be denied.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If you saw somebody do something, your testimony about what you saw is direct evidence that he did it.

    If you heard somebody say something, your testimony about what you heard is direct evidence that he said it.

    If you heard somebody say "I killed X", your testimony about what you heard is direct evidence that he confessed to killing X, but it is not direct evidence that he killed X; on that point, it is hearsay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,975 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Unless the interview was given under oath, it does not really count as evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,840 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    I was under the impression that evidence is considered heresay only if it was said not in the presence of the accused. The logic being that the accused was not in a position to deny or rebut what was said.

    If a person admits to a crime, how can that be heresay?

    And (previous post) where does it say that it has to be said under oath? If a suspect is being questioned in a police station he is not under oath - does that mean that the police can't take a confession?

    Haven't jailhouse admissions of guilt (to a fellow prisoner) been accepted as evidence in lots of cases?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,975 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    It's uncommon for Media Interviews to be given under oath, so when asked (in court) about comment they made in media interview, they can just laugh it off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,133 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I am not saying that's it, slam dunk, retry and conviction.

    I am saying that the "interview" that has been verified/witnessed and heard, it could be then used/pursued for a possible re-arrest/retrial and conviction. It sets the ball rolling, more like.

    Or are folks saying that this "confession" must only happen in a different setting for there to be any chance of getting the ball rolling again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Hearsay is an out of court statement intended to prove the truth of its contents. There is an exception made for statements against interest. A confession made after caution is a classic statement against interest. The statement itself need not be made under oath but it will only be admissible if the person giving evidence of hearing it does so under oath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Wasn’t there a ruling on double jeopardy being done away with a number of years ago? Ie that you could now be tried a second time?

    In America I guess the most famous case is the OJ Simpson book “If I did it…” - wonder would that be classed as new evidence under Irish law



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,791 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It would certainly justify an arrest and Garda interview of the person who claims that he committed the crime.

    If he repeats the claim when under caution, and signs a statement admittting the crime, then that would be new and compellling evidence that would justify a retrial.

    If he denies the crime, and says "No, that claim was just bravado, I was winding you up", then you have a problem. It's still possible that his courthouse-steps claims might lead to new evidence — for example, if he not only claims to have committed the crime but gives details which can be used to locate more evidence (e.g. "I disposed of the bloody knife by burying it on Sandymount strand", and the guards then dig up the knife, covered in the victim's blood and the offender's DNA) then, yeah, you have a good chance.

    But if all he says outside the courthouse is "I did it!" and when formally interviewed he denies that he did it, and you have nothing else that looks like new and compelling evidence, then I don't think there can be a retrial.



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