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Apple to small claims

  • 15-05-2024 03:44PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭


    Hi, I've started a case against apple in the small claims court.

    Bought a 10.9" ipad at Christmas 22, in Feb 24 it stopped charging, you can see some damage in the charging port - blackened little contacts. This tablet has been well taken care of, immaculate and only ever apple cable and charger used to power it.

    Apple will fix the issue for a price as they say it is outside the "apple one year limited warranty"

    They also say

    "without prejudice to the above the claimant has failed to produce any evidence that the device was not of merchantable quality(ie fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them, the price, and all the other relevant circumstances; at the time of purchase, pursuant to section 14(3) of the sale of goods act 1893?? - doubt that's correct (the 1893 act) as substituted by section 10 of the sale of goods and supply of services act 1980

    Accordingly the respondent denies the claimants claim.

    I take it that my response to this is to dispute their claim that it was '' as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them, the price, and all other relevant circumstances at the time of purchase" - I mean an ipad that costs €500+ should last more that 14 months?

    I have to respond to the registrar in writing, what should I write?

    Cheers



«1345

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Sorry, isn't what 6 years?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,685 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,094 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    The 1893 act is still in force, the 1980 act amended it. The technical title to cite them together is "Sale of Goods Acts, 1893 and 1980".

    6 years is just the maximum limit where you can still raise a problem. That doesn't mean every product must last six years - due regard will be given to what is reasonable and could be expected. You can't buy a child's toy for €5 and then get your money back because it breaks 5 years later.

    OP, I would simply respond that you don't believe 14 months is a reasonable time frame to expect from such a product. Depending on the question framed and space, you could add what you've said about the price and care you've taken

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Yeah, if i'd bought a cheap €100 tablet or if the ipad had been poorly taken care of I'd have no issue. But Apple is supposed to be a premium brand, well made, a quality product for which you pay extra, definitely should last longer than 14 months.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Well Apple took their time to come back to the registrar after my response on May 16th, hearing set for November - weekend in Cork on the cards then :)

    I suppose I just bring the tablet to show how well it was taken care of and stick to the line that it was premium price for a premium product and should last longer than 14 months? Don't want a repair as I have already purchased a replacement, so refund would be good.

    Don't suppose I can ask for some costs? :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,394 ✭✭✭blackbox


    A win in the SCC might be directing Apple to repair it free of charge or for a reduced fee. What exactly have you claimed for?

    Your costs (the SCC fee) will not be refunded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Looking to get refunded the price paid for faulty tablet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Not going to happen.

    Best you can hope for is a replacement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭Sultan of Bling


    I imagine Apple won't bother their a$$ showing up in court and the judge will just hear your side of the story (keep it short and sweet, they don't want to hear your life story) and then rule in your favour by default.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Supposed to be repair/replace/refund the 3 options, when the issue first appeared I would have accepted either of the first 2 options no problem, but as they didn't offer any solution I then had to buy a replacement myself, so only solution that is fair to me now is refund; I don't need 2 tablets to do the same job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I understand your point of view, I am just saying there is no way Apple will give you a refund for a 14 month old tablet.

    If they give you a replacement you can sell it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,993 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Interested to know how it goes.

    14.months is a disgrace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    When the issue was first reported Apple had the choice of resolution, Repair/Replace/Refund - it chose none of the above, it does not now have a choice in the resolution - that will be the judge's decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Have you documented all your interactions with Apple?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 669 ✭✭✭PixelCrafter


    Most likely that will just end up in Apple doing a repair of the port or a swap out for a refurbished model.

    Irish consumer law would be unlikely to accept that a 12 month hard limit on a warranty for a pricy tablet is adequate tbh.

    Keep all documents and communication with Apple on file.

    A lot of these cases are very much paper based.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ted222


    Apple could go either way.

    Even if you are successful (which I don’t think is a forgone conclusion), they could appeal the judgment.

    While you might think this would be the more expensive option, they might be anxious to avoid a legal precedent that made them responsible for the repair of items outside the warranty period.

    It wouldn’t be the first time a company had taken this stance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I used to work for Apple. When I was signing my contract, I had to sign so many pieces of paper I actually asked the HR lady was I signing for a job or buying a house? They must employ more lawyers than software engineers.

    The OP being successful is far from a foregone conclusion, and actually I predict they will offer him a refurbed replacement - not a refund.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Fair play to the OP for making a stand. Did you buy direct from Apple or from a reseller?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Bought direct from Apple. If they offer a repair or replacement in court I will tell the judge what I've said here, that it would have been an acceptable solution before I was forced to buy a new one - either of those two solutions now is just rewarding Apple as they got another sale out of it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Well today was the big day and Apple ambushed me… I bought the ipad for my (v small company) and their solicitor told Judge that Ltd companies need to have legal representation - supreme court decision Allied Irish Bank Plc vs Auqua Fresh Fish Ltd.

    Was given a half hour + to find a solicitor to stand in for me but no luck, so asked for case to be put back and will be back down in Nov with a Solicitor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭rock22


    If it is a business to business contract then I am not too sure the same protections apply. Also not sure if the Small Claims procedure applies.

    best speak to your solicitor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,394 ✭✭✭blackbox


    I'm surprised anyone has to have a solicitor at the SCC. I thought the idea of the SCC was to keep down costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,094 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Eight posts, and not once did it occur to you to mention that this was a B2B transaction? TBH, you're lucky the judge didn't throw the case out right there and then.

    Pro-tip: if you're looking for assistance on the internet, don't hide absolutely critcial information.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    You do know that the small claims process is available for businesses to use? Why would a judge throw a business case out?

    From citizens info site

    "The small claims procedure (also known as the Small Claims Court) is a service which provides an inexpensive way for consumers and businesses to resolve disputes without employing a solicitor. The service is provided by the local District Court offices."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    They can also appeal to the circuit court and if they win there an award of costs can be made against you. Tread carefully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,094 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    I do. Do you know that the laws surrounding B2B claims are completely different to B2C claims? You're in the Consumer Issues category. The very first reply linked you to consumer rights.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭chrisd2019


    The Judge didn't throw the case out, he/she told you your company needed a legal representative.

    Read your post with interest though, pity you didn't mention the business angle earlier. Have personal experience of interactions with Apple site in Cork, am not surprised they had a legal representative bring up a technicality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Yes the link was to citizens info, from where I got the quotation I posted about using the small claims for business disputes



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,324 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    From a lot of experience in these cases you're pissing up a down pipe.

    Consumer law says 6yrs. What a lot of people don't understand is a manufacturing problem needs to have shown it's face within the first 6mts.

    14 mts later, can you prove it hasn't left your sight. I thought not. Move on and get it repaired.



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