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Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,975 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    you’ve hit the nail on the head there re compliance and then as alps has outlined concerns over me Sweetman



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭alps


    I'm not right about NC case, just looked it up.

    They did apply for retention, however the decision to refuse retention was that because the development was near an SAC it required an Appropriate Assessemnt prior to an initial permission application.

    Where Sweetnam seems to be holding up plannings is that he is claiming developments within 15km of SAC's require these AA's.

    This could be where there might be a concern about subsequent retention applications.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 987 ✭✭✭daiymann 5


    Look its another scheme to help big farmers a small farmer is hardly going to build a slurry tower is he.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Why would you go looking for retention. If the building is in place 7 years with no complaints it can stay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,171 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    You are totally incorrect. Even if you cannot write down all the capital investment with the grant you are a long way ahead. In general take my planned total investment over the next 2-3 years.

    The shed and tank will probably be in the 100k bracket. I have got approved this year for fencing, mobile cattle penning head scoop and leghoist as well as a tine Harrow and air seeder. I also got a solar pump and a solar electric fence.

    Heading towards. 130k+vat. Penning, house and head scoop are the only things no vat back on.

    If if the grant on the tank is 60% total investment after drawing grant will be 52k. If the grant was 40% total investment net is 78k. If not grant and you shave a bit off it are you looking at 115k.

    After depreciation the respective costs are 26, 39 and 57.5k.. As @alps and @mahoney_j have pointed out most lads doing outside of grant work have issues with planning around yard with non compliant work around yard.

    30k is serious money to let behind you. However it coukd be more. Investment in tanks is rapid depreciation. And 100+k requires 12.5k/ year at high tax bracket if you have other depreciation already you could be looking at having 20k+ in avaliable depreciation. You may have other uses of available high tax funds.

    As for these lads with the high tax bill if they did not get it for the tax they would have a loan for the non grant aided shed same sh!t just a different day.

    Planning is everything and watching funds and cash flow are key. But not having a tax bill because of depreciation is poor financial planning. Usually the reason the tax bill is unmanagable is because when the money was flowing in the year before they did not put funds aside for the following years tax liability

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,171 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Because you can never draw a grant while the yard is non compliant. It's a thing banks are looking at more and more especially where they are doing secured lending. Just because you do not have to knock it dose not mean you are planning compliant.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭alps


    You may say that however lack of planning will remain a flaw on title. It doesn't exclude you from building regulations (specifications) and will come to light in any future applications be they for permission or subsequent grant application. Drawing in a risk period of 7 years following each manoeuvre of your business may not be the best management style.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,321 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    BAnk wanted a copy of planning here at drawdown



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    My point is why build without planning and then go looking for retention before 7 years.
    It not true about being unable to draw a grant. I got the grant for my parlour and milk tank a few years back as when the planning inspector came out he just wanted to see I had enough tank space. He measured everything and was happy with my tanks, which were all built without planning .



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    A few thoughts on the grant scheme that's being discussed

    I suspect if it goes a head it means theres a huge jump in slurry storage requirement s is on the way.

    It may have to do more with the concrete federation lobbying than anything else because down this way the word is farm building and big civil work has stopped and its only housing keeping the show a float .

    While well planned concrete always pays but in a company structure it has to stand on its own 2 feet more as government only pays for 12.5 % plus grant /vatwhereas in sole trader it pays for 50% + grant/vat.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,439 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Nail on head re concrete companies been down on orders, factory brothers draw out off is probably only operating at 60% of what cement was going out in 2022/early 23, farm building has all but stopped…

    Export market has collasped aswell into england with hs2 been shelved, this company would of been able to export all its cement accross the water till the above was shelved



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    THis grant seems aimed at tillage farmers for digestate storage from anaerobic digestors. I know a couple of tillage farmers approached by a company to put up slurry storage for this purpose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,700 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    we’re just going to have to disagree on this Bass. We’re in high tax bracket here and my slatted tank from 2018 is nearing its end in depreciation. Farm income is an awful lot higher than then and will be going forward. This will give at least 2 years with low tax bill to decide if we’re going have to go a company route or not. My business can afford the full cost with out the grant and that’s what we’re doing. I could have applied for the grant if I wanted but after seeing the **** show a local guy had this spring because he got held up with grant for a year I decided not to bother. I haven’t the time to go drawing slurry to a leased yard in late December, this spring I ended up drawing slurry to it in Feb which was a complete pain and I need the feed space. It’s not just being built for the sake of it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭davidk1394


    No electricity here. Won't be back until around 9.30. Must get a generator. Would ye go with an engine or pto generator? Around a 60kva 3 phase.j



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,090 ✭✭✭visatorro


    PTO here aswell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Is not the beauty of engine driven that it's a compact stand alone unit that you can wire up an automatic change over system that the power is only off for milliseconds?

    The downsize of tractor being there could be something else on tractor when tractor is needed.

    I'm saying this myself as I already have a 40kv pto generator but not wrapping taken off it yet. And I was thinking of trading back in for an engine driven one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,321 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    I've a lto generator but it's on old set up. Hoping to buy and engine driven one next year for new parlour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,439 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Theirs no point putting up a electric fence when the cows are already broke out and in the next parish, charlie is a complusive liar and bulls***ter, with hold-ups in tams applications, trying to get bank approval and then find a builder, derogation will probably be gone and 90% of planned tanks wont be needed…

    Its a face-saving excercise by the goverment, they know its pointless but they have to be seen to do something to help "save derogation"



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 4,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Setting up a grant system ticks a box for the Dept and gives them political cover. Doesn’t matter how unworkable it is on the ground.

    If and when slurry storage requirements are made stricter, and our farm reps make token noises, then the Dept will shrug their shoulders and say they’re doing their bit by making a grant available. And that’ll be the end of the “discussion” between Francie and the Dept.

    Re concrete prices: in case it helps - I did a 100ft x 8ft tank with 14-6 slats a few weeks ago for €32k ex VAT. The concrete was 1/3 of the cost, slats were a 1/3, and labour was a 1/3. There is a few extra days labour and track machine included in that as we hit rock digging out and then used that rock to level around where the milk lorry will be turning.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,321 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    See if times were normal you'd probably concrete were lorry would be turning. Concrete gone way too expensive now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭davidk1394


    What kind of money would that system cost? Power is just back here now. I'm just thinking of a wet spring morning with no power and cows and calves bawling at you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    The bigger diesel stand alone generators need to be connected to a mains to have an ant dampner I think. Need to be started more regularly also. Have a Bradley, cheap and cheerful



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Not sure. Going off DD but second hand prices 10 k 12k for a generator and obviously electrician and bits and bobs they'd use.

    I've a place a stand alone generator would fit but if I put the pto one there the tractor will be in the way of milk lorry. I'd have to build a roof of some sort just over the generator to take the worst of the elements off it.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    If you are considering a stand alone generator is it worth looking at you re overall power supply and set up.people tell me its cheaper to run a generator to milk and cool than the grid especially if you get into bringing in a 3 phase supply



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,975 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    concrete suppliers …machinery dealers etc …there all v quite especially on the ag side …trying to buy second hand loader for last while ….everything is crazy money and buyers not willing to budge on price ….was looking at 2 loaders since June made offer on one which was refused ….had missed call from one dealer yesterday asking if I was still interested to give him a ring …..concrete is gone to crazy money now where a 9.5 meter load is costing over 1400 inc vat …machinery is similar but I’m wondering tgeee if dealers got used of higher margins and didn’t want to budge ….sitting on lots of stock now they will have to get relatively



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,975 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    I bought a 3 phase pto driven one 50 kva 4 years ago …only needed it handful of times but fair comfort knowing it’s there especially with cows when there’s an outage ….I gave 5 k inc vat for it …I’d say you could add 2/3 grand to that for same now

    Was advised against engine driven one



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,975 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    election posturing comes to mind …..Charlie’s record with farmers is piss poor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Bought off 1 from dealer not far fr us u know de lad 3-4 years ago. Has been reliable bar a few pipes. 310 12 yr old



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,975 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    that o hall Oran in toome……was in there few days ago raging he has lovely manitou inside gate but sold ….has another one coming in in next week or 2 he’s to ring me …..price not outrageous either ….prefer buy off someone local like him tbh



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