The 2024 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

The term high percentage shots is often used in derisory way, or you hear people shouting at games to kick it in. But if your shot has a lower percentage than the probability of the opposition scoring from the kickout then you lose the game and you do not play in the final. So whatever the final viewers might expect from you they will not see it because you won't be there. The only way that you can give yourself scope for a shot is by reducing the probability of the other team scoring, and packing your defence does that.

If the rules are tweaked then Armagh and Galway will probably welcome that.

Amazingly this poster slates Dublin again , has been doing this for 14 years , mentions Dublin playing defensive negative football , but conveniently forgets his own County started it in the 2014 All Ireland final, playing defensive muck against Donegal which won them the All Ireland , other Counties copied this approach unfortunately, he should really open his eyes ref his own County Kerry , and let his hatred of Dublin go.

I wouldnt agree.

Flash in the pan for me would have been if Down had won the AI against Cork in 2010. Came from nowhere, surprised Kerry in the QF, almost won that game against Cork, and then returned to relative obscurity.

Maybe yes Armagh will do well to win an AI - but lets be honest, you'd expect on recent past form that any county other than Dublin or Kerry will do well to win an AI.

In the past 20 years, the AI has been won by teams other than Dublin / Kerry just 6 times.

If the AI isnt to be won by Dublin/ Kerry then there are maybe 4 or 5 other teams that are in the mix. Armagh is one of those teams. I dont think you could disagree with that.

They have been a very decent team the past 3 or 4 years.

I wouldnt use the term flash in the pan - they put themselves in contention, and took the opportunity.

Can they win in 2025 - I would say they are one of 6 or 7 teams that could win it. Dublin, Kerry, Galway, Mayo, Donegal, Armagh…at a stretch Tyrone or Derry. Winner next year will be 99.9% certain from that list, and 70% likely it will be Dublin or Kerry.

I would also say - I think they will be much stronger team next year than Tyrone in 2022.

Also - no star players? Rian O'Neill? Grugan? Campbell?

There are teams being 'slated' all over the thread and forum. Try and get over your own team getting a bit.
The 'you started it' childishness is not very edifying tbh either.

I think they had a bit of luck, but only in the sense that any second tier team (i.e. not Dublin or Kerry) will have a bit of luck on the way to winning an AI.

For example - if Galway had won on Sunday, then you could definitely say they were 'lucky' that Dublin had an off-day in the QF, that Con O'Callaghan missed a late chance that he would normally put away, and that nearly every shot they took in the second half went over. And that they were 'lucky' to get a soft enough free (over carrying) in the fifth minute of injury time against Mayo to win the game.

In the first half of the final, Armagh achieved their scores with half the possession of Galway, as the latter were endlessly passing the ball and forth. In a way, Galway were Armagh had been back at the League Div 2 final, but Armagh continued to work on their game and tweak things.

It is easy to gripe about the modern game, but Sunday showed excellent defensive skills, with many turnovers and few frees. Toward the end there was one long pass to Ross McQuillan, but Galway had the defensive skills to get the ball and avert the danger.

Armagh might not win another All Ireland in the near future, if they had 1.5 million people then perhaps they might have a better chance. That they do not have this population but can still win will encourage Donegal, Derry etc and so we might have a period of real competition in football.

I did I was going to say that the AI Final was the exception rather than the rule. I was at that Dublin v Armagh league match it was the year Dublin were relegated from div1, And played Kamikaze stuff. I did plenty of giving out about Dublin that yer.

Maybe I will be proven competely wrong and Armagh will move on the the "next level" as Dublin did when Gilroy first set them up defensively then gradually became more adventurous. And dominate the game for the next decade, but I can't see it. Most of the time when I saw Rian O'Neil he has played within himself in a system rather than being allowed to let loose

I think Galway had the chances even though they played more "careful" than they did v Dublin. Galway were more agressive v Dublin, and that won them the SF. Still though I have the feeling that Galway left the Final behind them. I can't remember the stats fully. But Galway had about 25 shots, 13 wides and about 4 dropped short to the Armagh goalkeeper.

Back in 2010 I remember that Cork team that won Sam they had the equivalent of two good teams. Then all of a sudden it broke up/lads retired and they never got near to winning it since. Which I did not see coming at all.

I was wrong about Cork, I could be wrong about Armagh. It would be great if they could go up to the next level of play for a while.

You've been very negative all year about Armagh. You gave them no chance constantly being dismissive about McGeeney and Armagh's ability to win matches. Not even the slightest bit of praise for how they played in the Ulster final which was a fantastic game of football. It must come as a shock to you that they were indeed good enough to win not only a couple of close games but also good enough to climb the steps of the Hogan Stand. And now that Armagh have won the All Ireland your going on about them getting to next level next year. Who cares about next year. Armagh are All Ireland champions for 2024 and thats all that matters.

I'm aware of the reasons for using the strategy. People are entitled to use it but it doesn't meet it is good to watch. Most people would admire more the skill and difficulty involved in kicking a point from 45 metres than handpassing it over from 10.

I'm probably in a minority here but I also don't think the negative strategies used are as advantageous as is commonly thought. We saw both at the end of the All-Ireland final and in the way Derry were set up in the Quarter-final where overly disciplined teams can be their own worst enemy- an unwillingness to attack rapidly for fear of losing the ball ultimately cost both teams. We can also see unexpected dangers arise just from the ball being in and around the square more often- for instance, all 3 goals in the semi-finals this year were from mishit kicks, Tyrone's first goal in the 2021 final just came from booting the ball in. And I also think that as a general rule, the team that is more aggressive attacking will win- you have to score more than your opponent ultimately. But I'm in a minority here, could be wrong, and teams seem set in their ways regardless, with all the negative impact on the quality of the spectacle, so rule changes are required.

There was defensive teams before, but Dublin were the ones who really perfected the 15 men behind the ball strategy. And as I've said before, negative play is not just about defensiveness, but also the endless handpassing/recycling around the 45, only taking high percentage shots, no high fielding etc. All of these existed to lesser extents before, but Dublin was the team who really solidified them in the game over the last few years and made it into the awful spectacle we see today. Nothing illegal about it, it's within the rules, but let's not pretend it's good to watch. Other teams have copied them now, but this style of play was definitely a Dublin "innovation".

I agree short kickouts have reduced high-fielding and that it is tactically sound within this system of playing. ABut aain, it's just not good to watch, which is what so many viewers have been criticising these last few years. It's not "arguably more skillful and diverse than ever" though, that's clearly false. The game is a much worse spectacle than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. People don't like this style of play and are quite vocal about it. There are many reasons for the collapse in attendances this year, particularly in Leinster, but one of them is definitely the low skill levels on display. Even using the example of Fenton, he is not being given the chance to showcase his skill fully because of this style of playing. So we see again how it's legal and tactically sound but also not making for a good spectacle. The skills probably are ahead of the 1970s and 1980s but there was a lot of positive change between then and when Dublin introduced and perfected this dour, negative style we've been talking about. So the skills and execution are worse today than in the 1990s, 2000s.

We definitely do need rule changes at this stage to improve the game on display. It's happened in other sports as you say and should happen in Gaelic Football too, there's nothing revolutionary about it.

Again, negative play is not just about 15 men behind the ball or just about only taking high percentage shots- it's all these things combined. Taking the standard strategy used by teams nowadays, it's good to up a point, but I think it can be overdone- Derry were far too defensive vs Kerry, Kerry were far too defensive vs Armagh etc. You need to score as well and one way to obtain such scores is by moving the ball into your opponents half at pace and actually taking things on.

As I've said before, these tactics are deemed to be good by almost every team, and if teams keep using them, and neutral interest keeps falling away, then it's on the GAA to change the rules, not any individual team to change it's tactics.

1-11 would've won the finals of 2014, 2012, 2009, 2007, and drawn the 2008 and 2011 finals. And lost the finals of '16, '19,' 20, and '21 by just a point. Armagh's score is not quite the outlier you might think. Finals tend to be cagey affairs with well-tested and organised defences operating.

More anti Dublin nonsense

As before, "negative" play is not just 15 men behind the ball. It's also the endless handpassing, lack of high fielding, only taking easy shots from close in. All legal, just not good to watch, which is why we've seen this outcry over the last few years as Dublin introduced and perfected this standard, and other copied them. So by the standards of the last 10, 20, 30 years, Dublin played a very dour, negative style of football.- as well as the other negative play, they played what is now normal but what is by historical standards very defensive. So there is no absolutely no question in fact that they were and are a defensive team!

They'd great players for sure, and they found a strategy that worked for them as they are entitled to do. Although not a strategy which fully showcased the individual skills of their players, but that's not their overall objective, which is just to win. But it's been bad for the game as a spectacle. Others have now copied them so while Armagh are more one of the more attacking teams nowadays, the benchmark for everyone is on the whole far more negative. People can try to wish this way but if the game really was as skillful and good to watch as people claim, we wouldn't be seeing all of this hand wringing.