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buying a small forestry plantation and leaving it - not felling it

  • 24-07-2024 06:16PM
    #1
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭


    Just wanted to pick the collective brain. I am looking at a property which I like but there is a forest behind the property which is also being sold. There is right away to the forest via the land on the property I am looking at buying. They will be building an access road, 7 metres wide to the forest which will wreck a lot of the nice parts leading to the forest.. anyway.

    I was looking to buying the forest land in order to save the lovely surrounds.. Can you buy a forest plantation and then just leave it and not fell it?



Comments

  • #2
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    have a read….

    https://www.gov.ie/en/service/02ca9-forestry-grant-scheme-change-of-ownership/

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #3
    cap.in.hand.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    Does the present landowner own both the property and forest land together



  • #4
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122421951#Comment_122421951

    They do. It is being sold after the owner's passing.



  • #5
    cap.in.hand.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    So who's putting in the access road to the forest if it's to be sold



  • #6
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422075#Comment_122422075

    Just a quick overview recap - the owner has passed away and their property and forestry plot are being sold by the executor(s). The property and and forestry are being sold as one or as two separate lots. Currently there are two interested parties in the separate things. The person who has an offer on the forestry will have to build an access road to get the wood out and then replanted along the right of way.

    The main question was, if I bought the forest plot as well as the property, am I okay to just leave the forest plot for good to preserve the area or am I obligated to not let it grow past a certain time.



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  • #7
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    You would never be under an obligation to cut a tree unless it is dangerous and a danger to others (e.g. at the side of the road)



  • #8
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423249#Comment_122423249

    Even within a forestry plantation setting which is out of the way?



  • #9
    cap.in.hand.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    Usually depends on type of forest it is...if it's pure sitka spruce/any softwood,it's usually harvested ...if it's hardwood/deciduous, they can be forever there



  • #10
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423323#Comment_122423323

    Yeah, it's all sitka spruce. That's why I was wondering if it would be alright to just leave. Someone will have got a grnt or something for them at some stage.



  • #11
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423758#Comment_122423758

    No obligation to fell, but for your sake I would look at felling and replanting part or all with something nicer than Sitka for the longer term



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  • #12
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,602 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a sitka plantation is not the nicest forest to own; you could potentially slowly clear the spruce and allow a native woodland to take over?



  • #13
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423771#Comment_122423771

    True but I would need a felling license surely. I mean that would certainly be a good plan and one I had thought to do. Not sure that's allowed so to speak.



  • #14
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,602 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you might need a felling licence but could fell the trees and leave them in situ, dead and decaying wood is its own ecosystem.

    if you were brave enough, you could ringbark some of the trees - leave them as dead standing, which is a rare sight in ireland (well, it was before ash dieback)



  • #15
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423839#Comment_122423839

    Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks



  • #16
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423839#Comment_122423839

    You need a felling licence for any tree unless it falls under an exception. Commercially planted trees would not come under any of those exceptions (except for maybe being too close to an older house …. which would be highly unlikely)



  • #17
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423935#Comment_122423935

    Sure, license is only €20. I will look into what is and isn't allowed.



  • #18
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423945#Comment_122423945

    Licence application fee might be 20 quid 🙂



  • #19
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423950#Comment_122423950

    Do you you know of any other costs that might come up? other than the most obvious - tools etc ?



  • #20
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424037#Comment_122424037

    No. I wouldn't pretend to know. You do have to do things like have plans on how you will manage the felling etc. How many things you can do yourself, and whether any need sign off from registered foresters etc. is something I don't know. But I assume it would be analagous to thinking that it would only cost 20 quid to get planning permission for a house because the application fee is only 20 quid.



  • #21
    cap.in.hand.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    It would be in your interests to also buy the forest land if interested in buying the other property so to have no right of way into it.



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  • #22
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424453#Comment_122424453

    That's what I was wanting to do I just wanted to see what owning that forest plantation might come with such as upkeep or mandatory felling at a certain age etc. I have contacted the official folk and they have taken numbers and are checking. Didn't want to get it and find I would have to build the road to honor some sort of felling condition that I don't know about. No matter how unlikely.



  • #23
    cap.in.hand.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424597#Comment_122424597

    That's the right action you took because if a forest service grant aided forest …it usually is for the realisation of commercial timber as one of their conditions.



  • #24
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,452 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Google, Continuous Cover Forestry, and look up the Pro Silva website for ideas on how to move from Sitka to a mix of Deciduous forestry, I think there may be a project already in place doing this.



  • #25
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,452 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    https://www.teagasc.ie/news--events/daily/forestry/transformation-of-sitka-spruce-stands-to-continuous-cover-forestry--continufor.php



  • #26
    soanyway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11 ✭soanyway


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424688#Comment_122424688

    That looks quite helpful! Many thanks



  • #27
    timfromtang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    Wow!

    Definately buy the forest,

    If you let some of that Sitka off and grow it to large dimensions it can be spectacular, perhaps consider keeping some of the better "stems with a future" during your conversion to continuous cover diverse woodland.

    With the right tools and labour inputs the operation could generate money from timber sales during the conversion.

    None of this is trivial, very small labour inputs can generate big changes (for example ringbarking and leaving deadwood standing)

    It would seem that expert advice, a plan, etc would help a great deal.

    A felling licence usually lasts for 10 years and is prepared by a registered forester and the forest owner.

    It contains the management plan, and the planned interventions, operations etc,

    Since you clearly have a plan and a vision for the future of your site with forest behind I would encourage you to engage a forester, prepare a management plan, get your felling license etc. The investment is small and in my opinion worth it.

    Best of luck with it

    tim

    www.youtube.com/c/timfromtang

    Fuinseog abú



  • #28
    Melodeon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭Melodeon


    This sounds like an excellent situation for conversion to CCF (Continuous Cover Forestry).
    It'd probably be worth the few hundred Euros it'd likely cost to get a CCF-sympathetic forester to have a look and advise.
    There are small scale low impact thinning and extraction systems out there, a knowledgeable forester would know where/who to look for for that sort of thing. It might even negate the need for a full-scale forest road, depending on the layout of the place.
    These systems aren't the most cost-effective profit-maximising way of doing this sort of work of course, but I get the feeling that maximising income isn't the goal here.
    Is there anyone doing horse-logging in this country, does anyone know?



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