Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

20-12-2023 12:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517432#Comment_121517432

It's also the mechanism for how they can afford to keep these players in Ireland.

There would have been no way in recent years for Munster to pay Murray, Earls, Beirne & O'Mahony with their financial issues, without central contracts.

Obviously the same is true of Leinster with the level of players currently on central contracts there.

From a Leinster perspective too - it makes the situation where Furlong & Sexton for example barely played for Leinster in the 2 seasons leading up to the RWC more acceptable. If provinces are having to raise external money to pay these players, they will be less receptive to instructions on when to rest the players etc. It leads up to a potential situation more akin to the English model, with more scope for conflict between the individual branches and the central union.

sydthebeat · 20-12-2023 12:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517432#Comment_121517432

that carrot of being able to represent Ireland is the factor keeping players in Ireland

all you have to do is look across the water at England and Wales and see that your statement above is demonstrably untrue.

when wages do not match in an open market, people WILL move to the higher money ahead of the prestige of playing for your country.

Podge_irl · 20-12-2023 12:51PM

Central contracts are an accounting measure at the end of the day. They are given far too much weight by people.

21-12-2023 03:18PM

New backs coach confirmed

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2023/12/21/andrew-goodman-to-join-ireland-coaching-team-in-2024/

Clegg · 21-12-2023 03:24PM

Goodman is an interesting appointment. Very highly rated from his time at the Crusaders and was in charge of Leinsters excellent set piece attack.

There was more talk of Mike Prendergast and Noel McNamara than Goodman.

Buer · 21-12-2023 03:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522598#Comment_121522598

People have a significant dislike of them but the Independent journalists (Ruaidhri O'Connor and Cian Tracey) seemed to have the read on this one. Said Goodman was the only name they knew had definitely been approached and that Prendergast was happy in Munster and wouldn't be leaving.

Clegg · 21-12-2023 04:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121522644#Comment_121522644

Ah thanks I hadn't heard that Goodman was the favoured man. When it was first announced that Catt was departing the usual podcasts were suggesting Prendergast and McNamara.

ionadnapóca · 21-12-2023 05:01PM

Don't recall an in situ coach been lined up this far in advance for Ireland. Presumably he will be on the tour to SA with Catt.

Its a good move for him and Ireland. Keeps the continuity with a Leinster-centric approach.

Leaves Leinster in a pickle. I'm sure Nienaber as someone in mind!

Dubinusa · 21-12-2023 06:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523000#Comment_121523000

I hope Nienaber doesn't. Who wants a coaching team of boks? Carolan or Richie Murphy would do nicely.

ersatz · 21-12-2023 06:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517432#Comment_121517432

there is no reason to think Murray being selected while he was out of form had anything to do with central contracts. He was the incumbent and on from was miles better than anyone else. Joe gave him every opportunity available to play his way into form (perhaps mistakenly) but the more obvious motivation for that was that if he got back to his best he was one of the best in the world, never mind Ireland.

As someone says above those contracts are an accounting strategy for the IRFU to ensure that important players get the wedge to keep them in Ireland, and as a funding mechanism of the provinces. There are probably more equitable ways to do it to produce better outcomes for the provinces, assuming that keeping test players in situ is assured.

TRC10 · 21-12-2023 11:34PM

The RTÉ sports awards rugby montage perfectly encapsulates just how accepting and rewarding of failure the rugby media and fanbase in Ireland are. Absolutely embarrassing

clsmooth · 21-12-2023 11:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524492#Comment_121524492

I don't think anyone on here takes anything you say seriously these days.

sydthebeat · 22-12-2023 12:06AM

Water is wet

TRC10 · 22-12-2023 12:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524559#Comment_121524559

Answer me this. Would you ever see the main public broadcasting service in NZ, SA, France or England, label failure to get past the last 8 as "good enough"?

The attempts by the mainstream media to spin our latest World Cup failure as some valiant, heroic effort is comical and embarrassing

sprucemoose · 22-12-2023 01:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524735#Comment_121524735

would it be better if the media would label the players as complete failures to a level of almost personal abuse, as has happened in all those countries previously (I can only presume about France, I dont follow their media too much so maybe they are actually different)? the NZ reaction after 2007 for example, was particularly gruesome by all accounts

yes, i dont think the irish campaign was a success overall, of course it wasnt. but a grand slam, beating the current/future rwc champions in a competitive game, irish URC winner and Irish european finalist all point to the year not exactly being a complete failure for irish rugby

22-12-2023 06:37AM

I think there is a real lack of analysis on why we lost the NZ game in the media.

However, it was undoubtably a successful year overall.

Clo-Clo · 22-12-2023 08:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524990#Comment_121524990

It was done to death across the media on podcasts. Not sure how many review you want to do?

22-12-2023 09:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525035#Comment_121525035

Not on the ones i listen to. There has been more analysis on random urc games than on why we lost vs new zealand on the 42 podcast for example.

ionadnapóca · 22-12-2023 10:14AM

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2023/1221/1423319-nucifora-to-take-up-advisory-role-with-rugby-australia/

So basically Humphreys is effectively in the hot seat for Christmas and Nucifora is going home - Notwithstanding the contracts

I wonder does this pave the way for Joe Schmidt to become the new Wallaby coach?

salmocab · 22-12-2023 10:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525249#Comment_121525249

It says he’s not going till august

ionadnapóca · 22-12-2023 10:27AM

Yes thats what it says.

But thats not whats happening!

TRC10 · 22-12-2023 10:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524883#Comment_121524883

would it be better if the media would label the players as complete failures to a level of almost personal abuse, as has happened in all those countries previously

I'd rather they labeled failure as failure. Of course I'm not advocating for personal abuse of the players, but don't try to dress up failure as success, as they have been doing. And maybe the fact that the NZ team were actually criticised after 2007 gave them motivation to succeed in 2011, which they did. Not one Irish player or coach has gotten any criticism in the media after their failure at the World Cup. So why should they aim to do better in 2027? They'll be treated as heroes no matter what.

Clo-Clo · 22-12-2023 10:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525206#Comment_121525206

The podcast like 42, molecast, offtheball etc done weeks of analysis to the point they even laughed they had to get off it onto another topic.

Only so many times you can flog a horse and talk about a leg width in losing a game

Clo-Clo · 22-12-2023 10:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525311#Comment_121525311

All during the World Cup when Ireland won it was always said with the "but we have done this before"

After the World Cup the majority I listened to said at least we put up a fight in the qtr, had a great win v SA but in the end we have got no further than before and this hurt more because we felt we could have wont he competition. So it was a failure and no other way to see it.

But we probably finally got the prep right for the World Cup but some tweaks instead of a complete overhaul whcih we had post most other World Cup

aloooof · 22-12-2023 10:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525311#Comment_121525311

I'd rather they labeled failure as failure. Of course I'm not advocating for personal abuse of the players, but don't try to dress up failure as success

I think that's pretty fair, TRC.

But equally, I'd argue that too often, you try to dress up success as failure, when you make comments like "we lost when it mattered". It completely overlooks our actual achievements like, for example, our 4th ever Grand Slam.

Of course that matters.

There's a reasonable middle ground here.

ionadnapóca · 22-12-2023 10:57AM

Oh God no! Please!!

We're on to ~~Australia~~ 6N

Podge_irl · 22-12-2023 10:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525394#Comment_121525394

It's not fair. No one has claimed the world cup to be a success so its a complete strawman.

The only ones refusing to look at reality are the curmudgeons who couldn't a enjoy a single god damn thing over the previous two years cause they're inherently miserable people who I don't even think like rugby. Pity about them.

22-12-2023 11:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525349#Comment_121525349

I mean leg width to lose a game is not analysis. That’s the thing. If we had won that game by 3 points, the analysis would not have been we would have lost if his leg was wider.

Clo-Clo · 22-12-2023 11:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525499#Comment_121525499

You haven't listened to any of those podcast and are complaining that the media wasn;t more critical.

22-12-2023 11:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525505#Comment_121525505

I didn’t say critical. I said analysis of why we lost beyond ‘well it was close and sometimes you lose by small margins’. There was lots of interesting things to talk about that were just not talked about. Like NZ mirroring our style and our abandonment of the game plan we used on tour as the game progressed. How NZ won the kicking battle. Exactly how did they change up their tactics?

Every podcast was just ‘shrug, small margins’ basically. If we had won by 3, it would have been a lot more in depth.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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