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General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭POKERKING




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,170 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Context of the signing is kinda important though... other clubs have had to make some bargain basement signings to fulfill a clear important need in their squad or even first team. Your example was a fella with league winning, champions league winning, international pedigree who came in briefly as the most filler of squad filler requirements, with lads like Yaya Toure, Gareth Barry, James Milner, Nigel de Jong, Samir Nasri, and David Silva all ahead of him. If anything, it just shows the strength that they could toss out a deal to someone as backup to the backup with absolutely nothing riding on it.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭IncognitoMan


    The Bebe deal stunk for sure but I think it was more a way to keep Jorge Mendes sweet rather than anything more. We had done a lot of business with him and would have been looking to do even more.

    Unfortunately his list of clients is hugely impressive

    Would love for this to be cut out. It's sickening how powerful some agents are in the game.

    It's fairly baseless to add the Nani thing in and actually harms the overall question. There is questions to be asked about Bebe deal but when you turn it into conspiracy nonsense that gets lost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭POKERKING


    But come on, Jonny evans fits that exact description. He has all those medals and came in as filler as 5th choice centre back, literally swap evans for Hargreaves in all of the above and then some city players for united and its all valid based on what you have said.

    Every team inc city have had to make signings like that including chelsea, arsenal and liverpool. But when united do its oh look at us look how poor we are and big bad city dont ever have to do it. Evans came in with over 200m in centre backs ahead of him as 5th choice filler. What a fantastic postion to be in to toss out a deal to someone as backup to the backup….

    Hang on am I in the general pl thread or the united one because sometimes its hard to tell the difference?

    For Sabitzer see Patrick Vieira or David Pizzaro. Granted not recent examples mainly due to us not making a complete balls of the last few years like United. But every club has had instances of having to do that at some stage including city since the takeover.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,944 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    the arguments and comparisons around Hargreaves and Evans are pretty pointless.

    City made that signing as backup after their doping had already enabled them to have a feast of stars. The point is the feast of stars that were there before City became any sort of reputable financial juggernaut, helped by obvious massaging of sponsorship deals, creative accounting and the like.

    The point is not Hargreaves - anyone can make a veteran signing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,901 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    In the last 7 seasons (back to 17/18, this is the number of loans, and free transfers made by each club. I've not included loans such as Raya, Amrabat & Kuluveski as they are obliged to buy the player permanently.

    It's not solely a case of Man Utd having bad transfers over the last few years and having to resort to loans/frees, but a big factor is also the fact that Man City having no worries about budgets or transfer spend so don't need to dip into that market at all. It's not just Man Utd that have had to dip into that market. Spurs have too, Arsenal have. Chelsea's figure is a bit skewed with their recent splurges but you get the idea. Liverpool's figure is lower than I thought but their number would double if the time range was extended by 2 seasons with players like Matip & Milner coming in. And so on with other clubs.

    For what it's worth, both of Man City's free/loan transfers were reserve goalkeepers or 3rd choice GKs to get around the HG rule. It was never first team players.

    10	Chelsea
    10	Man Utd
    10	Spurs
    6	Arsenal
    5	Liverpool
    2	Man City
    




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭IncognitoMan


    The overall point though is City wouldn't ever find themselves in a situation where they couldn't spend on a striker (and having none in the squad) due to FFP. And end up signing a championship striker to fill a gap.

    Because City do not play by the rules when it comes to FFP. Their inflated finances make sure they cannot fall into that situation.

    You can say this doesn't happen to them because of excellent squad planning but you can't be surprised when other people will point out the elephant in the room that has given them the ability to buy that squad.

    I agree 100% that Utds poor squad planning was what lead them to their issues. That all falls back on the owners and who they have employed at board level.

    Utd are paying the price for that now - and it shows that even a club the size of Utd with their worldwide appeal will struggle to just spend endlessly.

    But City can somehow find the funds to do it without much issue despite being levels below Utd in terms of world-wide appeal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    When was the last time City signed a filler player like Hargreaves? That was what, 2011 or thereabouts, only 3 years after the lottery win so they hadn't fully embedded the structures they have now.

    Do you think that City today would be signing the likes of Weghorst or Arthur Melo? They would in their holes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,248 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    kalvin phillips of course for a cool 50m. 29 games in 1.25 seasons. minutes wise its prob closer to 10 games.

    and HTF does southgate still pick him?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭BenK


    Your general point still stands obviously but I think Amrabat is option to buy not obligation to buy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭POKERKING


    2 points and then im done on this topic.

    1. why go to 17/18? All debates here recently have been since the takeover. Alas, the initial point said under no circumstances and i pointed out circumstances. The original point could have been made with no reference to City but its open season around here. It’s exhausting.
    2. City didnt sign those keepers for HG reason, our squad is small and full of HG players that it hasnt been an issue for us in recent memory. There was no need to get around any rule.

    Thats me done on this topic.



  • Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You must have said you're done on this topic around 115 times at this stage! 😂



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    Mod: Its Friday, games are back tomorrow so all posters are now done on this topic in this thread.

    A new thread is available to discuss financial rules of the league:

    LINK




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    Fixtures:

    Saturday, November 25, 2023

    MNC v  LIV 12:30 PM

    BUR v  WHU 3:00 PM

    LTN v  CRY 3:00 PM

    NEW v  CHE 3:00 PM

    NFO v  BHA 3:00 PM

    SHU v  BOU 3:00 PM

    BRE v  ARS 5:30 PM


    Sunday, November 26, 2023

    TOT v  AVL 2:00 PM

    EVE v  MAN 4:30 PM


    Monday, November 27, 2023

    FUL v  WOL 8:00 PM


    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fixtures/_/league/eng.1



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,131 ✭✭✭jacool


    For the 5th game in 6, Manchester United face a team in the bottom half, and they have won them all, and they have won them all by 1 goal. They have yet to draw a game in any competition this season. This one cold come down to how hurt Everton are feeling and if they can use that on the day.

    Man Utd are like the walking wounded at this stage with Casemiro, Shaw, Malacia, Martinez, Diallo, Eriksen, Evans and waiting on Onana and Hojlund.

    Everton's own Onana is also potentially back for this game, along with Gomes. Coleman, clearly is still way off coming back. 0-1 or a shock 1-1 first draw for Man Utd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,725 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    Rumours now that Ten Hag and Varane are not on speaking terms and Varane will be sold in January. If true Ten Hag seems to have a habit of falling out with quite a few players and he is not even there a season and a half



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I would be more concerned if he wasn't falling out with players. Let's be honest, that squad is full of weak characters and freeloaders, it should not be surprising at all that some are unhappy at finally being called out on their bullshit.

    Fight away Eric, I am not interested in another Ole pandering to these wasters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,162 ✭✭✭NITRO95


    Considering so many people aren't talking to each other there's a whole load of rumours coming out about Utd. Seems some people aren't happy that ETH is still picking up results



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Varane is a permacrock, lovely player in his day but he cannot be relied on. He's on massive wages too, if a semi decent offer from the Middle East comes in January then I'd be happy to see him leave, likewise Casemiro who looks banjaxed, unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,725 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    Would Varane be considered a "weak character"? Fair enough he is injury prone,but is there need to fall out with him?

    And there is only so many players you can fall out with at the same time before they all turn against you



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,918 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    4th choice CB placed against Varane is wrong, i think. he is second choice to Maguire for RCB with neither really considered for LCB.

    as for the talk on Casemiro - the simply explanation, imo, is that he has been absolutely rubbish this season, and was subbed/dropped as a result of poor performance - and now both he and United are looking for a way out.

    I do feel ETH's approach, in general, is causing problems though. it seems a lack of communication is a problem, along with training/coaching. I don't know how much of those issues could be attributed to the mess United is in general, or what is specifically on ETH's shoulders alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,901 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    This is from my bigger post on the current top 6/7 in the Liverpool thread earlier in the break but this is the breakdown of Man Utd's league games so far.

    Screenshot_2023-11-23-14-18-47-67_6012fa4d4ddec268fc5c7112cbb265e7.jpg

    As you mentioned, the wins have come against the teams occupying the bottom positions in the table, and then the games against the better sides have all been losses.

    The next run of games will be tricky/tough, with some tough European games in the middle too. ETH needs to prioritise his competitions and rotate accordingly IMO, especially with bodies a bit lighter.

    I think that they play Villa, Liverpool, Newcastle, West Ham & Spurs soon so they will need to start picking up wins there, let alone points. They've none against the top half so far this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,974 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    I'd say it's a bad time to be playing Everton 9ver the next week or two. They've been on a decent run of form and now they'll be really galvanised around the PL punishment. Goodison will be a hostile place this weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I know that when he was brought on in a recent game that his attitude stunk to high heaven. I don't care if he likes the manager or not, do your **** job when you are on the field.

    The squad is full of players with that attitude, they only perform when everything is exactly to their liking, it has been killing the squad for years and as a fan I am sick of it. Most of them are that type of player, so when I hear that Ten Hag has fallen out with most of them my first reaction is "Good. **** them".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,701 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Varane was top drawer in his day but the body just isn’t reliable anymore. And if his attitude isn’t what it should be, then Ten Hag should get rid of him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,701 ✭✭✭doc_17


    That little foul from Silva on MacCallister is one of the Mose dangerous in the game. Harry Kane is always at it.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That is an awful goal to concede



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,974 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    It's actually a great take and finish from Haaland but poor play from TAA and Szoboszlai. If it's a similar situation for City then one of the City lads makes the foul on Ake before the pass is made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,901 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Sky will be devastated that there was no contentious red card or penalty decision to fill their HT 'analysis' with.



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  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Zero atmosphere here



This discussion has been closed.
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