General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

Suvarnabhumi · 20-11-2023 03:12PM

Your posts are so long and full of full of waffle (with all due respect), that I don't really know what you're trying to say most of the time.

Most of the stuff you point out as fact are just your opinions.

eagle eye · 20-11-2023 03:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392263#Comment_121392263

I'll shorten it for you.

City cheated and probably still do.

Success brings popularity and City are one of the five most popular clubs in the world as a result of success.

jacool · 20-11-2023 03:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392368#Comment_121392368

They scrape into the top 10. Of course, for many football fans who judge them by their ill-gotten gains, they will never be a "big" club.

1. Manchester United:

Instagram: 63 Million Facebook: 82 Million Twitter: 32.7 Million Youtube: 8.1 Million Subscribers

2. Real Madrid:

Instagram: 99.5 Million Facebook: 111 Million Twitter: 37.5 Million Youtube: 6.52 Million Subscribers

3. Barcelona:

Instagram: 97.5 Million Facebook: 103 Million Twitter: 36.9 Million Youtube: 11.8 Million Subscribers

4. Juventus:

Instagram: 49.3 Million Facebook: 44 Million Twitter: 9.2 Million Youtube: 3.44 Million Subscribers

5. Chelsea:

Instagram: 27.3 Million Facebook: 49 Million Twitter: 17.1 Million Youtube: 2.9 Million Subscribers

6. Paris-Saint-German:

Instagram: 35.8 Million Facebook: 42 Million Twitter: 9.1 Million Youtube: 3.03 Million Subscribers

7. Bayern Munich:

Instagram: 26.8 Million Facebook: 52 Million Twitter: 5.5 Million Youtube: 2.3 Million Subscribers

8. Arsenal:

Instagram: 19.4 Million Facebook: 37 Million Twitter: 17.5 Million Youtube: 2.3 Million Subscribers

9. Liverpool:

Instagram: 31.2 Million Facebook: 37 Million Twitter: 17.4 Million Youtube: 5.81 Million Subscribers

10. Manchester City:

Instagram: 24.4 Million Facebook: 40 Million Twitter: 10 Million Youtube: 3.3 Million Subscribers

Suvarnabhumi · 20-11-2023 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392368#Comment_121392368

In no particular order,

Real Madrid, Liverpool, Manchester United, Barcelona, Bayern Munich are more popular. I could name more, but I won't bother.

If they were the 5th most popular club in the World, they would sell out every game they play, even the CL group games.

bucketybuck · 20-11-2023 06:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391328#Comment_121391328

I'd absolutely say that they still aren't a massive club.

Loud and visible at the minute, sure, but its all smoke and mirrors, nothing about it is real. If the sportswashers walked away tomorrow City would drop right back down the divisions to where they started.

Yes they might still have the infrastructure they inherited but their so called fanbase would disappear into the winds.

People separate the historical cheating and the new deals happening today, but I have little doubt that their accounting is every bit as dodgy today as it ever was. Something tells me Pep still has plenty of lucrative side deals conveniently ongoing..

pjohnson · 20-11-2023 07:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121392405#Comment_121392405

You need to check ranker.

I remember when this success = popularity guff was to be "dropped" yet here we are still incorrectly banging that trope drum.

doc_17 · 20-11-2023 07:46PM

City are the biggest small club. Or the smallest big club.

Fitz* · 20-11-2023 07:55PM

Whenever I think of side-deals, I always think of Xavi coincidentally winning the Doha lotto while playing for a club based in Doha!

I would go looking up if the same people were involved in the bank/club but there's no point as it's too much effort, and we all know the answer really.

Xander10 · 20-11-2023 08:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391167#Comment_121391167

Sounds like Sinn Fein

JRant · 20-11-2023 08:32PM

Outside of stripping titles along with relegation, like Serie A did, they any other punishment opens the flood gates for Newcastle and whoever else comes after them.

Same goes for Chelsea really, who aren't even bothered trying to hide it anymore.

~Rebel~ · 20-11-2023 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393555#Comment_121393555

I'm not sure there are any breaches in Chelsea's recent stuff (just hugely risky choices) - their investigation is looking into all their dodgy dealings from Roman's time. But yeah, regardless, they need to go as hard as they can on City or it'll just become a shïtshow.

JRant · 20-11-2023 09:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393782#Comment_121393782

Weren't they already done for dodgy dealings with underage players and given a transfer ban?

~Rebel~ · 20-11-2023 09:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393833#Comment_121393833

Yup, I think there was probably no end to their shenanigans throughout their time under Roman tbh - by 'more recent stuff', I mean under the new ownership.

eagle eye · 20-11-2023 10:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393782#Comment_121393782

Be honest though, you know nothing will happen. They are bigger than the Premier league, Mansour I mean.

They have so much money they could keep this thing in the courts until all the people investigating it are dead from old age.

It used to really bug me but I've seen this powerful money show it's power too many times now and there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done about it.

These Newcastle owners can do what they like, murder, war crimes, kill members of the LGBT, treat women like **** and still come in and make a deal to buy the PGA tour, which for years has proudly stood as an honourable, non-profit organisation.

Mansour controls nearly £300 billion. He can do what he wants when he wants and nobody is going to stand in his way. The best outcome if someone does is that they'll end up broke. The Premier league will end up broke if they try to take City down.

20-11-2023 11:41PM

I'll be shocked if City aren't relegated when all is said and done. The level of cheating they have been involved in for over a decade is astronomical. Was it Arsene Wenger who coined the phrase 'financial doping '? Never has a phrase been more apt.

The thing about City since Mansour and co came in though isn't even the financial cheating, breaking every rule the PL and CL have to try and keep some lid on how teams operate financially, it's the fact that they effectively took their d*ck out and waved it in everybody's face while doing so. It has all been so brazen it's almost comical - stadium sponsorships multiples of the going rate, made up shell companies sponsoring City for this that and the other, managers being paid in offshore accounts or to do phoney gigs etc. The list is actually endless for anyone who has delved deeper into this topic.

I have to say one of my favourite moments in football is after the 2019 FA Cup final, where City achieved the first ever domestic treble in English football. One of the press asked Guardiola was he being paid under the counter like former City manager Mancini was. It was superb. Imagine in a moment like that when most should be celebrating a historic achievement and the victors should be revered, that some of the media felt the need (absolutely correctly btw) to sully the moment by asking what everyone and their dog knows - that City are complete and utter financial cheats. It summed up that every City success that had gone before was pointless. Everybody knows and feels this, the same thing happened for the CL treble last season. The sense that everybody is just waiting for these City cheats to be dealt with appropriately.

It is scandalous that such an open secret of their financial cheating has been allowed to go on effectively unpunished for over a decade (there has been minor slaps on the wrist from UEFA leading to the hilarious boos of the CL anthem for years from City fans now - you have to hand it to their fans really, they're almost as brazen as their owners). I think in the end they will be relegated. I just hope that there is far more than that done or it will be a massive cop out considering the level of cheating that has gone on. They should either be relegated down a number of divisions, or relegated to the championship with no possibility of promotion for a few seasons (football purgatory effectively). They should 100 percent be stripped of every trophy domestically won in the years found cheating (that should be every year since Mansour came in if the PL have done enough solid investigating). No need to award other clubs those trophy's, those asterisks left there for no winners wil always be a reminder of English football's greatest ever cheats in those seasons. There should be a massive financial fine. There should be a long term transfer embargo. There should be a ban on qualifying for European competition if and when City get back in the PL (I believe that is an if btw as I can see the owners fleeing like little cockroaches if most of the above came into play).

I don't agree with some of the nonsense being posted in this thread by eagle eye and company, that nothing will be done in the end. Can anyone remind me the last time the PL or FA or any governing body hit a club with 115 charges? I'll be amazed if they aren't relegated at a minimum as I said above. I can see it going a lot further than that though. It's all just a waiting game now.

eagle eye · 20-11-2023 11:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394166#Comment_121394166

I was talking worldwide. Spurs are huge worldwide and not a lot know it. The UK market is only a small part of the business these days, you'd need a microscope to find Ireland in world accounts.

From the Guardian,

In China, United are out in front on Weibo, a Twitter-like site and a well-used if crude metric, with 11 million followers; Chelsea and Barcelona are close behind. City are fourth with 9.25 million, double that of Real Madrid and Liverpool.

blanch152 · 20-11-2023 11:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394287#Comment_121394287

As an Arsenal fan, being beaten by City and Chelsea over the years hasn't bothered me as much as others. To me, they were always playing a cheat card so losing to them didn't really count as a defeat. It just didn't hurt the same way.

giveitholly · 21-11-2023 12:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394310#Comment_121394310

But if City weren't cheating then Arsenal would of won the league last season. Does that not bother you in the slightest?

21-11-2023 10:15AM

I'd be willing to wager that City's 2022 accounts are just as dodgy as their 2015 accounts.

jacool · 21-11-2023 10:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121393302#Comment_121393302

The OP said they were top 5 in "popular" clubs, so I looked purely at the empirical data on "popularity". I never linked it with success, there are obvious ways to measure that. Unless you're reading something in my comment that I can't read. No drum, no banging from me.

Suvarnabhumi · 21-11-2023 10:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121391678#Comment_121391678

@eagle eye apologies for calling you a WUM. I didn't realise it was outlawed here. No offense intended.

pjohnson · 21-11-2023 11:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395108#Comment_121395108

Oh it wasn't directed at you, it was the poster you were refering to.

IncognitoMan · 21-11-2023 12:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121394071#Comment_121394071

Honest question here...

What courts exactly will City be able to keep this ticking over in while they compete in the PL?

If the PL rules that they broke their rules and or FA, UEFA or FIFA rules then Man City's membership can be revoked.

It's on the PL website :

"Any serious breach of the Rule Book results in an independent three-person tribunal sitting to hear the case, ascertain guilt and set the punishment, which can range from fines to points deductions and, in extreme cases, expulsion from the competition (this has never happened in the history of the Premier League)."

If the PL rule to expel City then who exactly are City going to bring this to?

CAS is out and there is no time barring to save the day here. UEFA? Not likely to get involved.

FIFA can never be sure of but again what can they realistically do. The rules are clear and so is the punishment for breaking those rules.

I've no doubt City and their crooked legal team will try all the tricks but I just don't see how they drag it out once the PL charges them.

The only question is the severity of the punishment. A 10 point deduction for Everton seems like they can only go down the more extreme routes for City now.

There no way this just goes away. Hopefully City as a football club doesn't end up folded because of this.

That would be a concern - at the end of the day Mansour can just walk away from the club if it no longer fits his purpose. Buy another European club and take aim at the PL that way.

City fans have been obnoxious over the last few years and their head in the sand approach has been infuriating but they don't deserve to lose their football club.

Especially the fans that never asked for this

theoneeyedman · 21-11-2023 01:42PM

Why are CAS not an option?

Heighway61 · 21-11-2023 01:43PM

Could they take it to a court of law?

eagle eye · 21-11-2023 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395617#Comment_121395617

You can challenge every little thing. Points of law on everything. There's documents upon documents for anything like this.

I've seen criminal cases take seven years to be resolved by going to higher courts on points of law in this country. And this is not rich people who can afford to spend millions on it or have the best of the best legals teams.

I'll give you an example. James Toney got banned for gambling for eight months I think it was given to him.

I'd have appealed that, for a psychologist to say he had an addiction problem and while bringing it to court I'd have had him getting 'treatment'.

I've now proven that he was suffering from an uncontrollable addiction. Are you going to ban a person with a serious illness. You'll never get away with that.

I'm very surprised that wasn't done.

The Premier League want to keep things in-house but City won't let them do that.

The Premier league can't afford a legal battle with City unless they get the backing of all the rich owners in the league. You can rule out Chelsea and Newcastle for a start and Everton as well.

Everton will be bringing them to court as well and Chelsea too.

The Premier league would end up in serious debt if they went to battle with all these clubs.

What'll end up happening is City will accepth a large fine, maybe even a massive one but no other penalty. Same will happen with Chelsea.

They won't let, I'm talking about City and Chelsea, the Everton punishment stand either. They don't want a precedent.

eagle eye · 21-11-2023 02:04PM

I have to say, all this thing about fairness in the league is a bit ridiculous anyway. City have rich owners and they run a business. Why can't they invest as much as they need to improve the value of their asset. It's a lot bigger than football these days, these clubs are massive commercial enterprises.

Mansour bought the club for under £0.5 billion and it's now worth over £4 billion.

And there hasn't been fairness in the league since before the Premier League began.

United were the biggest club and could outspend everybody. Arsenal were another rich club. Then Chelsea and Abramovich came along with his money and now Mansour and his money.

You can say that United earned the money the right way but there was crookedness all over more than a few of their dealings, both football and business.

Any of you remember the Panorama show about United?

This is not me liking the owners. I despise Mansour and bin Salman and Al-Rumayyan. Murders, War crimes, jailing and killing members of the LGBT community and women who have the 'temerity' to demand equal rights.

McFly85 · 21-11-2023 02:24PM

I wouldn’t be surprised at all to hear that cities books are as dodgy as ever. It’s been no surprise to see teams that are state owned like City and PSG be top of the revenue pile.

The big issue it is that it creates a false economy within football - a small group of teams generating record revenues through essentially self sponsorship, which feeds into overall profit and in turn goes into how much they can spend on players - and at that point it starts to affect how much players cost everyone(see the after effects of the Neymar transfer for evidence). Trying to legitimise their spending while make like more difficult for every other club.

If city are found guilty they should be absolutely hammered with punishments for how they’ve acted.

nullzero · 21-11-2023 02:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121396061#Comment_121396061

That's fine until you factor in the reality of the situation which is that the means by which City have financed their sporting success are strictly prohibited by the Premier League.

There's a reason that the richest football club in the world (Newcastle United) haven't been spending like the proverbial Pools winners they are, and that's down to the looming catastrophic repercussions facing Manchester City, they're learning from the mistakes made there albeit whilst indulging in some quite similar practices re sponsorship.

City aren't just using their owners wealth to buy success, they're purposefully concealing how they are structuring their sponsorship deals, how they are paying their managers (and yes this includes the anointed one, Pep) with under the table deals and fees for makey-uppy work that amounts to the type of "no show" jobs that wouldn't be out of place on the Sopranos.

It's just a pity that City will be able to put off their fate by tying the Premier League up in legal red tape for years before this finally gets resolved.

ArmaniJeanss · 21-11-2023 02:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395907#Comment_121395907

No and Yes. Which isn't a great answer. I'll try to clarify.

Firstly it seems from Incognito Man's link that the rules of the EPL state that an independent 3-person panel is the final arbiter of guilt and subsequent punishment. And as City signed up to those rules then they'd appear not to have a case to bring it to a court of law.

So technically they'd need to do a 2-step process. First bring it to a court of law in the hope of declaring that the EPL internal process contravenes actual law. That a decision like forced relegation or expulsion can't be made via some internal process. If they win that case then they can bring it to a court of law to examine the whole case. The first part (even with appeals) should be relatively quick and if they lose it ends the process. The second part, it it gets there, would be what would end up taking years to complete.

General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

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