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Will Ireland push the EU to scrap VAT on car imports from the UK

  • 28-01-2023 9:52pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭


    As the title says, we don't have a big enough population to have a properly functional car market. If the status quo stays as it is the average age of Irish cars will skyrocket as we don't buy enough new cars to have a functional used car market due to our population size.

    Seeing as we can't import from any other EU country because they are LH drive I think in the next 2 years we will see the government seek a special deal for cars.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,263 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Any change to VAT rules on UK imports will be tied to any general trade agreements between the EU and UK, you're kidding yourself if you think there will be some kind of sweetheart deal for second hand cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    And forego all those sweet, sweet VAT monies? I doubt it.

    The current situation is likely pushing people into buying new cars due to the second hand market being depressed. Win, win for the government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,263 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Oh and just FYI, there are two other EU countries that drive on the left, typically in RHD cars



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭User1998


    The car market here is doing fine. Prices have just increased like everywhere else in the world. And it should get a bit better when new cars become more available. The government have no reason to change VAT rules.

    As far as I know no other products have special VAT rules. Customs duty yes, but not VAT.

    A reduction from 10% to 5% customs duty could be possible similar to the EU Japan trade deal, but that wouldn’t make much difference



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    No. The state has no reason to care about the second hand market

    Also, the UKs self inflicted recession will cut off supply of nearly new cars from there anyway



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,535 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    Car market is not doing fine 90k for a golf r here?

    Place is gone to the dogs!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    Doing fine is it 😂 it's way out of it whack with other countries even taking into account the pandemic.

    knew Malta have RH drive cars didn't know about Cyprus, both tiny countries so makes no difference to us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    It clearly does when they don't want the average car age in the country to be 20 years old and they have to fit that in with EU emissions and safety laws regarding cars



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    ..



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The rules on cars sold from the UK depend on where they were originally made. EU imports into the UK which are then ere-xported, even years later don't benefit from the trade deals. It's just the ones built in the UK according to the rules of origin.


    UK car production collapses to lowest for 66 years - They still had coal rationing back then

    Brexit deal means from 2024 batteries not containing 50% local materials face EU tariffs and their battery factory went bust last week.

    Brexit is just a slow motion car crash

    We can still get cars from Japan.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The states interest is entirely in reducing the total number of cars. Nothing else.

    There is zero reason to even consider rule changes, so don't imagine it might happen



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    I know, tiny countries so irrelevant to this discussion. In an even worse situation than us regarding this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,263 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    On an EU scale, we're tiny too and certainly not special



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭User1998


    But thats nothing to do with Brexit or EU VAT rules?

    Cars have always been overpriced here due to VRT



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭User1998


    Thats nothing to do with what was outlined in the post tho. Cars have always been overpriced here due to VRT.

    The 90k Golf is due to manufacturer price increases and VRT, not EU VAT rules



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    It's not all to do with VRT. Cars were always expensive here but they are piss take prices now for used cars and thats never going to change because we don't have a functioning market so even when used prices level off throughout the world when production gets back in sync they never will again here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,395 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Not a snowballs chance in hell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭Packrat


    I wonder if the current situation will lead to more people buying LHD cars from other countries and using them here..

    Probably never be a huge number due to increased insurance etc but stranger things have happened.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭creedp


    We are lucky that the car market is transitioning to EV as at least the Govt is currently subsidising the purchase of new EVs which should help a little to increase the used car supply down the road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    If it starts happening en masse, they'll be refused insurance altogether. So no.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,776 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The car market is going through a periodical reset, thats all.

    We've got 5.2 million people, we can easily sustain 250,000 new and used sales, if the value is there for people.

    Good dealers are working to secure the stock and that good value, that's what they do. The bad ones are disappearing and thats no harm either.

    The best thing the government can do, is GTF out of the way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,395 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Don't see it. a) they almost certainly would come under lobby fire from the local car trade. b) at least while the greens are in co-power they won't want to make cars cheaper full-stop and c) why would they want to seek a difficult trade exemption thats isn't really going to benefit the state coffers?

    Can't see it happening.

    People are importing from Japan now. Apparently it's not that difficult, my local garage seems to be doing it all the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,172 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    There was another thread about a week ago discussing the possibility of a VRT reduction on EVs and hybrids.

    Could be a way to get an EV second hand market going.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    No because it is not possible. As members of the WTO they must comply with a concept called “most favored national”, which means in simple terms that you can’t give a better deal to the UK than to any other WTO member. On top of this the trade agreements with Japan and Canada require their approval if you want to give a better deal to the UK. So the bottom line is that you keep importing tariffs on all or you scrap them on all, no exceptions.

    You are more likely to see Ireland switching to the other side of the road before tariffs will be dropped.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭RetroEncabulator


    It’s not just unlikely. It’s effectively impossible. Brexit has taken the UK not only out of the EU, but of all the broader associate memberships that many other non-EU countries have been part of, including the Customs Union some aspects of which even extend to countries like Turkey.

    It also will potentially become easier to import RHD Japanese cars because of the EU-Japan trade agreement, which is implementing in phases.

    The EU will have zero interest in complicated arrangements to facilitate one member state buying second hand cars from outside the single market and the customs union or any EU trade deal networks. It makes no sense and would undermine the very concept of the Union. They’ve already bent over backwards to try to facilitate Northern Ireland and have mostly been slapped in the face by the DUP and the Tories with all offers having been thrown back at them.

    Also from the Irish exchequer’s point of view it’s a loss of revenue.

    It’s also not really in the European car industry’s interest to have consumers in what is a pretty wealthy EU member state buying used cars form outside the EU. So I can’t see that lobby working overtime to get exemptions for it either.

    I think a lot of people in the UK are forgetting that the EU’s raison d'être is to encourage trade with and between its members, not to facilitate the whims of 3rd countries. The whole philosophy of striving towards easy, barrier free, low cost trade and a level playing field only applies within the EU itself. There seems to be a lot of surprise that this doesn’t seem to include a former member that’s cut all ties and whose current government seems to imagine it should be able to position it as a giant off shore tax and regulatory haven ‘Singapore on Thames’ and so on, and be somehow granted privileged access to the EU market based on …

    So basically, no - it makes no sense technically or fiscally and it makes no sense politically.

    If people are that hot and bothered about car prices here, they need to start questioning the Irish political parties about VRT and domestic taxes and charges on new cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,192 ✭✭✭goochy


    I think current situation is good . Previous situation where all the UK imports were distorting price of Irish cars



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,172 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    As you say VRT can be adjusted.

    VRT is an Irish Government competency and can be changed without upsetting the EU.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭RetroEncabulator


    Of course Irish rates of tax on new cars can be adjusted and were for EVs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,172 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    So if the policy is to encourage the use of EVs why not reduce VRT on them to make it cheaper to bring them in from UK ?

    I don't know the state of the EV market in UK though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭User1998


    VRT has already been reduced on them. And theres also VRT grants for EV’s.

    VRT on a high performance EV for example is still only 7%, compared to 40% on a high performance petrol car



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