Carnivore 2023

carrollsno1 · 22-12-2022 3:48pm #1

Hello there, first time posting in this forum.

Im going carnivore for the start of 2023 and aiming to hit 90 days and see how it goes from there. Im not posting here to be talked out of it(i wont be)however i am very open to discussion on the topic as long as respect is shown each way, i am posting here to give a log of my journey at it and keep a bit of accountability too. Im around the 130kg mark 6ft and built like a brick shithouse however since 2019/2020 i cant seem to drop the weight and any time prior to that where i had good results dropping weight i was on a high protein animal based diet accompanied by a consistent gym programme. Ive been weight training on and off since 2020 between lockdowns working away and other factor it had been hard to build major consistency until last year however for the latter half of the year my diet hard to get a grasp on due to external factors outside my control. Last year i started more cardiovascular training hoping to accelarate fat/weight loss however despite my efforts, looking leaner, getting compliments and clothes fitting better my weight shot up from 120kg to 130kg over the year. This year ahead looks to have me working close to home and home for the full year which i am delighted with as it will prevent any upset to my plans/routine. Having listened to Dr Paul Saladino, Dr Shawn Baker, The Liver King and Dr Jordan Peterson i think this diet is the way forward for me and im all for giving it a fair go in 2023. Also any drinking that will take place over this time the beer is going to be replaced with a whiskey and water as it seems the cleanest option out there not that there will be a lot of it anyway.

Discuss away below and ill start my log in January.

igCorcaigh · 22-12-2022 4:24pm

Are you going to be eating any vegetables or grains at all??

SimpleDimple · 22-12-2022 4:30pm

You know the liver king came out and said he’s been on steroids yeah?

Also I wouldn’t trust much of anything Jordan Peterson says as he’s sadly battling some pretty bad addictions that seem to have really pushed him away from reality.

I’ll be interested to hear how you get on though, I think it doesn’t sound like the healthiest diet to do

carrollsno1 · 22-12-2022 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025793#Comment_120025793

No veg no grains.

carrollsno1 · 22-12-2022 5:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025813#Comment_120025813

Yes i know the liver king has been outted as unnatural however how could anyone really believe he was natural before that news broke? This isnt a discussion about Jordan Petersons teachings however both himself and his daughter have seen huge health benefits from animal based diets. The last time i followed a high protein animal based diet (albeit not religously) i dropped 10kg over 5 week a typical day consisted of a 6 egg 6 rasher ommelette for 10am break, three chicken thighs for lunch and three chicken thighs that evening as well, the city i was in at the time allowed me to snack reasonably well at times as meat was generally available to buy cooked on the corner of most streets adding in the heat a physically demanding job and consistency at the gym it all worked lovely on top if that i did all that while living in a hostel so there is no reason not to achieve it when im at home. I look forward to youre opinions and discussions on it in the new year, in regards to thinking its not the healthiest diet would you mind giving a listen to this podcast beliow? It was one of the first ones ive listened to when i started looking into animal based last year.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2auwtVto0sG7OcZ0hs3aOP?si=n-WhuxUMT4ml7UKzqdintg&utm_source=copy-link

igCorcaigh · 22-12-2022 5:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025866#Comment_120025866

No vitamin supplements? You don't want to get scurvy...

No judgement from me OP, just curious how it will go for you 🤞

carrollsno1 · 22-12-2022 6:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025967#Comment_120025967

Scurvy seems to be a common thing anyone undertaking this lifestyle gets asked. Scurvy was mainly associated with sailors whos diet would have consisted mainly of dried/dehydrated foods be they meats or fruits, neither a great source of vitamins or minerals. There should be sufficient vitamin C levels in fresh meat to prevent scurvy, i myself believe red meat to be the ultimate superfood. Dr Paul Saladino otherwise known as Carnivore MD follows a carnivore lifestyle however fresh fruits, honey and dairy are allowed in the diet however vegetables are a big no no.

igCorcaigh · 22-12-2022 6:06pm

Interesting... Will you be consuming fish or eggs?

I wonder how the lack of fibre might affect the GI system?

carrollsno1 · 22-12-2022 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026130#Comment_120026130

Yes to the eggs and absolute no to the fish. Never eat fish anyways and im not going to start either.

igCorcaigh · 22-12-2022 6:16pm

I got the keto flu quite bad when I done a one week LCHF diet a few years back. It had interesting effects... Very little hunger and more energy.

I missed the carbs though... don't think I could adapt to it full time.

SimpleDimple · 22-12-2022 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025907#Comment_120025907

I’ll give that a listen. Ins only heard of the dirt from J Peterson and his daughter (coincidently when they were on Rogan) but didn’t buy into it from hot they described it. The pair of them also make some fairly dubious claims, something about cider vinegar, can’t remember exactly though.

So it would be good to hear your guy since he seems mote credible.

As you can probably guess I haven’t tried this diet myself, so as I’ll be keen to hear how it goes for you. I know I wouldn’t have the commitment to go full carnivore, but have had good success dropping carbs previously so it’s more the little bits you’d normally get from veg that you might miss out on that I’d be concerned about.

neris · 23-12-2022 4:07pm

Liver meats for vitamins once or twice a week. Fatty cuts off meat (chicken legs, chicken thighs rib eye steaks, salomon) not meats like chicken breast or sirloin steaks. 2 good guys on youtube for carnivore are Dr Ken Berry & Dr Anthony Chaffe. Good luck with it, it's a more natural diet based on how people lived to survived. It should also cut your hunger down and if you mix in a bit of intermittent or prolonged fasting you'd probably see even better benefits. Won't say I'm total carnivore but when I do it I feel better physically and mentally

Cill94 · 23-12-2022 6:46pm

Most respected nutrition scientists (slightly more qualified than 'Liver King' or Jordan Peterson, with all due respect) are in agreement that there are some fairly significant health concerns, namely increased risk for things like cardiac events or stroke.

If you're dead set on it for whatever reason, I would at the very least try to consume fibre rich food like fruit, get regular blood work done, and do plenty of cardio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybE-ue_2LWw

carrollsno1 · 23-12-2022 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120029594#Comment_120029594

Id mainly be following Dr Paul Saladino and Dr Shawn Baker to be fair. The former has came out before and said how fruit is now playing an important part in his diet as i mentioned above. Ill be comsuming fruits, honey and minimal dairy.

carrollsno1 · 03-01-2023 7:17pm

Day one done.

Spoon of honey first thing this morning

1030 150g of chicken and a cup of tea with milk

1330 lidl striploin steak

1630 apple

1730 good thick cut of whats left of the christmas ham, cup of tea with milk and honey

Heading to a spin class later, will finish the day with an lidl rib eye and more tea. Cant say today was full carnivore as im still congested and after the seasonal dose going around and i am taking lozenges for that at the minute. Woke up feeling bloated after the holidays today already feel better, bowel movements seem as regular as ever i have yet to experience the common complaints mentioned in that area. Kind of just making do with whats easy to buy for this week as it was hard organise over the holidays. Will be going to a local meat wholesaler on Friday where i will pick up plenty of liver and heart among everything else and try to create some structure with this from next week on.

Bullocks · 04-01-2023 8:18pm

I only started reading a little bit about this diet over the Christmas and I like the sound of it. Maybe not a long term diet but I'm interested to hear how you get on.

Hard to beat the steak out of lidl, I find it consistently good.

How much seasoning on the meat do you use or is allowed? I love chicken thighs in the oven coated in blackened Cajun seasoning I got in Musgraves. I'd find it hard to eat them plain though

neris · 04-01-2023 8:29pm

You can season meat but you really need to make your own Seasonings. Those store bought Seasonings will have sugar and who knows what else in them.

carrollsno1 · 04-01-2023 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066033#Comment_120066033

Joe Rogan swears by doing 30 days once a year. I am still researching it myself as i go on i must get metrics/measurements up this week before its too late. As you might have seen before on the F&F chitchat thread i mentioned what training i did last year and how the weight still crept up over the year despite all the going. The last time i was close to carnivore i was working and training hard and had great results whereas now i might have better results as ive the mind more focused on it at the minute. As for seasoning im not sure to be honest what the rules are on that part, youd be surprised what a bit of butter pepper and salt would do to them.

As for today everything is the same as yesterday except i had a pack of Biltong/Jerky from Lidle for 1030 break instead of chicken and an extra apple too. Still reasonably regular however a hell of a lot less frequent than previously. Still under the weather and taking lozenges so ibcant say im full carnivore yet either.

carrollsno1 · 04-01-2023 8:37pm

As @neris said store bought seasoning could contain plenty of inflammatories we are trying to avoid with this diet. I only read last night how the carnivore diet is ideally an elimination diet for 60-70 days then you can reintroduce certain foods gradually to see if they cause inflamation/discomfort and work from there.

@Bullocks have a read of this site an awful amount of good information on there.

https://liveancestral.com/

i have a feeling it could be The Liver Kings website, ive nothing against him myself he meant well and seems to have been right in what he was preaching, only a fool would have believed he wasnt on gear though

igCorcaigh · 04-01-2023 9:22pm

Nice going @carrollsno1

Do you have those urine sticks to measure ketone bodies? Will you know when you go ketogenic? As mentioned, I did get a bad keto flu, so watch out.

carrollsno1 · 04-01-2023 9:36pm

@igCorcaigh can they be gotten over the counter in a chemist? Ive done Keto a few years ago and had no issues at all. Im ran down at the moment due to the seasonal cold/flu going around at the minute i couldnt be at this long enough to get any adverse effects yet.

igCorcaigh · 04-01-2023 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120066387#Comment_120066387

I used the regular urinalysis strips, from Amazon, because I need to test my urine for other things anyway. There the same ones your GP will use, with the different squares for each test. I haven't seen them in sale from pharmacies, but don't waste your bucks.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08CSMWKPH/ref%3Dppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There's no need though; if you don't feel unwell, then you are doing grand.

markmoto · 06-01-2023 3:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026130#Comment_120026130

"Need more fiber" is another myth. Fiber is a junk food. Thanks God scientists eventually agreed that dietary fiber not an essential nutrient!

carrollsno1 · 09-01-2023 7:26pm

Took some measurements today pity i havent any from last week to compare well just have to wait till next week for a comparison.

Neck 18.5

Waist 43

Gut 46

Chest 46

Shoulders 58

Rh quad 23

Im a good 6ft for reference

Feeling great, good energy levels, never hungry yet, no bloated feeling, regular/normal bowel movements, energy remaining constant i.e. no rushes/crashes. Need to get a new hole punched in the belt this coming weekend, looking and feeling a bit leaner too. Still have to purchase a weighing scales, i know what weight i was in November (130kg) for reference and i have progress photos from that time too to compare with this lifestyle. Tracked my food one day on my fitness pal, a typical day came in at just above 2000 calories. It just goes to show its all about quality of calories in vs quantity of calories in as i am definitly getting a lot more satiety out of those 2000cal carnivore than lets say 3000cal of processed food. I was at a relatives house Friday night and there was a spread in front of me of what junk food was left from the holidays i had no interest in it and it there right in front of me.

Halfway through Dr Paul Saladinos book the carnivore code, an interesting listen however you need to be in the right zone/headspace to listen to it, its not something you would listen to on a jog and i reckon the actual book would be a better option as there is so much information to take in.

Went to a localish abbatoir after work Friday. The striploin steaks were similar in price to lidl by the packet however there was over 100g more in this fellas packet than lidl. I spent €82 on what should do me the week olus a few packs of jerky i had already. For €82 i got 12 striploins, 1 T-Bone (both on special), three lambs hearts, four lambs kidneys, a good sized pack of lambs liver and a pack of marrow bones. There is definitly room for me to cut back my spending by using diced/ground beef in the future however what im using at the minute is suiting me timewise as my evenings are fairly busy. Is €82 a lot for one adult to be spending on food per week? One day over Christmas between buying a mix of foods i ended up spending over €60 and it did definitly not last me the week either. One thing i would like to introduce over this coming weekend is eggs into the mix.

Lets hope i can keep going now.

Mellor · 10-01-2023 3:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025907#Comment_120025907

You have a physical job, consistency in the gym, and in calorie deficit. And you contribute the success to the fact it was a carnivore diet, rather than the high activity and low energy intake. Seems like a bad conclusion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026105#Comment_120026105

There's not enough vitamin c in meat, dehydrated meat retains vitamin C better than cooked, and sailors still got scurvy. Cooking meat denatures the vitimn C. Even if eating raw, you'd need 4kg of beef a day to reach 100mg.

I've no idea who the Carnivore MD is, but if the diet allows fresh fruit, it highlights that fruit is providing something that meat is not (clue: Vitamin C). Take a supplement at least. Not sure why he exactly includes Honey. But honey are fruit would not be carnivore obviously. Given that being a canivore is the whole USP here, there's obvious some issue if the guy advocating it are not even fully advocating it,

carrollsno1 · 10-01-2023 8:06am

On youre first point, theres a hell of a lot more satiety from high protein foods compared to processed foods making it easier to stay in a cakorie deficit.

As for youre second point look the man up and youll see why hes started to include certain fruits, honey and dairy in his diet. I joined a few groups on facebook rekating to the carnivore lifestyle and id say half the participants are strict meat only and the other half is 90% meat. Dr Shawn Baker is strictly beef and eggs only, give a quick search on him too the mans in his 50s hes 7 years carnivore come back to me if you think he looks like a fella whos strugglingm

markmoto · 10-01-2023 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088394#Comment_120088394

Requirements for vit. C on carnivore diet is far less I believe. High carb diet tends to deplete/waste a lot of vit. C

Mellor · 12-01-2023 2:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088483#Comment_120088483

It's also easier to stay in calorie deficit when you have a physically demanding job and are going to the gym consistently. My point was that you are attributing the weight loss to the carnivore aspect and ignoring the calories deficit, physical job, gym etc.

As for youre second point look the man up and youll see why hes started to include certain fruits, honey and dairy in his diet. I joined a few groups on facebook rekating to the carnivore lifestyle and id say half the participants are strict meat only and the other half is 90% meat.

TBH, you are the one making the claims. If you have info, you can post it and I'll have a look and consider. But it's not really worth my time to research you claims for you. To be clear, my preferred diet is high protein, low carb, I responded well to keto metabolically (but I think it is inferior socially). I've no issue with a high animal protein diet. I just don't see the benefit in making the jump for high animal protein, to "carnivore". My gut feeling is you lose more than you gain.

Dr Shawn Baker is strictly beef and eggs only, give a quick search on him too the mans in his 50s hes 7 years carnivore come back to me if you think he looks like a fella whos struggling

I did a quick google. He's had his medical license revoked. Quite athletic, seen he's broke a weightlifting record a few years ago. And that he was in the Air Force and served in Afghanistan. Plus this;

With a varied career including playing rugby for a number of years in New Zealand, Major Baker said he has been lifting weights for most of his life. "I've been lifting for years. I started when I was 14 and have been powerlifting since 1988."

So he play semi-pro Rugby in New Zealand of all places, was in the Air Force, has lifted weight since he was 14. Has also competed powerlifting and strongman in the 300lb class. He also primary earns money through selling his carnivore books, his diet subscription, etc.

Seems a bit naïve to attribute his appearance to being carnivore since 2018 (5 years) and not the fact he has been weightlifting for over 40 years, and competing in very juicy sports for decades. Bonus fact, one of the references was when he posted his bloodwork for a podcast. Very high bad cholesterol, and very low testosterone - a lifetime strength athlete, world record holder with low test, is a pretty obvious marker.

If you are doing to do this right. You should consider your own blood work.

Mellor · 12-01-2023 2:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089450#Comment_120089450

I've read that, but how much less was never clear. 100mg is the bare minimum, not the optimal amount. That could be 1000 or more. So on very low carb the optimal might be 60?? Still, that's a lot of raw beef.

I've only heard that the 10mg from meet is enough from people promoting carnivore. Keto advocates recommend supplementing generally.

Cill94 · 12-01-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097078#Comment_120097078

I did a quick google. He's had his medical license revoked.

Obviously just big medicine trying to silence him for speaking the truth about an ancestral diet 😤

Quite athletic, seen he's broke a weightlifting record a few years ago. And that he was in the Air Force and served in Afghanistan.

Can't you see that was because he ate carnivore? The benefits are truly astounding.

So he play semi-pro Rugby in New Zealand of all places, was in the Air Force, has lifted weight since he was 14. Has also competed powerlifting and strongman in the 300lb class. He also primary earns money through selling his carnivore books, his diet subscription, etc.

So cynical Mellor. People wouldn't just exploit the public's fitness aspirations for their own financial gain like that..

carrollsno1 · 23-01-2023 12:53am

Righto in regards Shawn Baker i had a quick look and he handed in his licence as he was prescribing lifestyle changes (i presume the carnivore way of eating) as opposed to writing out several prescriptions (follow the money). His licence has been reinstated since. As regards his physical health in his 50s yeah he did have a fairly intense time training most of his life however im a young man myself and im doing a fair bit of training myself now and if the carnivore diet compliments that (which it has) im happy enough with that and who knows maybe when i reach my 50s ill still be thriving like him.

As regards the constsnt question that keeps popping up about scurvy, the HSE says that any poor diet can lead to scurvy so chances are that most people following the standard western diet are at more risk of getting it than anyone on carnivore. On the facebook groups i have yet to find anyone who has gotten scurvy since starting, if i do get it ill let you know but i cant see myself getting it somehow or other.

I will be ignoring anymore posts on those two subjects. This is a thread about my experience on the carnivore way of life.

As regards progress last November i was 130kg i dont know did it rise over Christmas with the excessive eating/drinking associated with the holidays but i was down to 128kg today. As regards measurements my measurements today starting into the third week were

Neck 17.5"

Waist 41"

Gut 42"

Chest 43"

Shoulders 53"

RH Quad 24"

Training wise my garmin is telling me ive hit new PBs after my swims and certain run sessions during the week. My coach was surprised with the level of training i put in last week after only really recovering the week beforehand and getting back into the swing of things after a poor back end of the year for 2022. Im attributing this way of eating for some of that.

Carnivore 2023

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