Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

mr.stonewall · 17-12-2022 10:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005812#Comment_120005812

Just wondering where 0.85m3 coming from the top danish rate band of storage is 0.445m3/week

straight · 17-12-2022 10:47AM

Building facilities is money well spent. Never regretted pouring concrete here.

jaymla627 · 17-12-2022 10:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006710#Comment_120006710

220 gallons in a cubic metre of slurry 170 cows milking here at the minute and including parlour washings their about 6500 gallons of slurry a day produced, 6500 x7 is 45000 gallons, that's coming to 264 gallons a cow a week, take out the parlour washings and you'll spare it back to around the .85m3 a week rate

jaymla627 · 17-12-2022 11:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006388#Comment_120006388

Last tank done here in early 2020 was a 180 ft u shaped tank 8 ft deep with a 16'6 slat concrete was 65 plus vat a cubic metre, steel was 10k incl total for entire tank, and the slats plus columns and 4 agitation points came to 17k plus vat, total cost came to 50000 euro plus vat for tank and slats no shed our any site works around it included, roughly 140000 gallon capacity so would just about get a 70 cow herd out for the winter where cows are dry.....

Same tank now I'd say 85k-90k would be the lower end of the price to do it, could run well over a 100k depending on site and builder

Siamsa Sessions · 17-12-2022 11:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006826#Comment_120006826

Thanks for the info. What little of the rose-tinted glasses I had left are pretty much gone now 😀

Mooooo · 17-12-2022 11:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006728#Comment_120006728

Would agree normally, the catch this time is the risk that the cow numbers to pay for it could be taken from you...

GrasstoMilk · 17-12-2022 02:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006826#Comment_120006826

I did a tank with a little bit less storage for 53 k inc vat last year

alps · 17-12-2022 04:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006349#Comment_120006349

Comes from the change they made last March when they declared that 1m³ or 1000 litres of slurry only contains 2.4 kg of N as opposed to 5kg previously.

Our cow was deemed to excreet 85kg N in the year..or 85÷52 = 1.634kg per per week.

1.634÷5(theN content in 1m³) =0.33

Therefore the cow required 0.33m³ of capacity per week of your storage period.

Move it right on..

Cow now excreets 106kg N per year..

or 106÷52= 2.038 kg N per week

Then 2.038 ÷ 2.4 (the new figure of N per m³🤨) = 0.85...

Going by their previous calculations...the new one should be 0.85m³ required per week of storage required...and that has increased as well...

Carnage🥸

Siamsa Sessions · 17-12-2022 04:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007675#Comment_120007675

Will farmers be expected to more than double their current storage capacity, if the reference figure goes from 0.33 to 0.85?

alps · 17-12-2022 04:59PM

They are reviewing the figures, but to my mind if they come up with a lesser figure it means that 1000 litres of slurry contains more than 2.4 kg N...but they got that one wrong before..

blackdog1 · 17-12-2022 05:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007675#Comment_120007675

Does the composition of the diet have any effect on N excreted per cow? for example a cow on a 16% diet will excrete less N than a cow doing similar litres on a higher protein diet.

alps · 17-12-2022 06:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007879#Comment_120007879

Definitely, and can be measured by milk urea levels...The Dutch built that into thier banding but it looks like a complicated headache..hopefully we stay away from it...

Say my name · 17-12-2022 06:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008039#Comment_120008039

And a way around to feed high(er) protein and have low(er) milk urea is to feed humic acid,biochar.

It's all a balls anyway. Purposely making it complicated to drive people from farming.

K.G. · 17-12-2022 07:18PM

Lads i very slow but are ye sayong if the ntrogen content increases the volume increases .i understand that we will have to store more dairy washings but i dont understand the conne tion between volume and nitrogen content

straight · 17-12-2022 10:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007819#Comment_120007819

Funny how they keep getting it wrong but they think they can get it right this time.

893bet · 17-12-2022 11:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007675#Comment_120007675

Is that change only on dairy cows?

K.G. · 18-12-2022 12:12AM

Struggling to get my head around this .83 cu m per week.do ye know in the spriñg when the tanks fill up and the weather is iffey and you start putting a few loads here and there to keep it down,well over rhe years i ve kinda got a handle on how much slurry the cows produce per day from how many days you get from how many loads you put out.i did the sums and it comes in at .361 cu m a week.there is some rainwater from un roofed cubicles.i dont know what the nitrogen content is but that is the volume produced per week

Pinsnbushings · 18-12-2022 05:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008947#Comment_120008947

Sure all you need do is talk to any contractor with a pipe system, I know one fairly well that says the only day's they weren't out last winter was Christmas day and Stephens day. Dirty water of course

whelan2 · 18-12-2022 06:34AM

I think though this year has been really bad some rain has fallen since the start of October. Cows were in here before the start of the closed period. We'll have enough storage, just about , this year

Pinsnbushings · 18-12-2022 07:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009123#Comment_120009123

Ye any tank not under a roof or collecting water off a yard got no chance this year..I have 40 percent more storage than I need on paper,so took a chance and didn't empty the tanks in October with the way the weather was, I'd say it was a mistake I will need to get some out by the end of January at the rate they are filling.

18-12-2022 07:49AM

The whole system is rotten, what some lads can get away with while others that have ever had an issue are watched like a hawk. Neighbour horses out slurry every year with contractor tanker in all sorts of conditions nov/dec, including rock solid frozen ground including drawing on public road. Working off slurry storage that was built for half the cows he has now and his about to complete the building of a new milking parlour with 60% grant that he could have lived without. One of these poster boys for farming. It’s this kind of thing that really puts me off farming. If everyone was playing by the same rules then fair enough, life isn’t always fair I know. I’ve no issue with the neighbours, it’s just the idiotic nature of governance.

K.G. · 18-12-2022 08:42AM

Ah lads i m not talking about spreading before the 12 jan.i m talking about these calculations that requires an increase in slurry storage and i m saying my experience is telling me that .33 cu m per week is what they prduce not .83.i cant get.my,head around why a change in nitrogen content means a change in storage volume.i have always understood that 1000 gls of slurry was roughly the equivalent of a bag of 10 5 30 which ties in with the 2.4 figure.5 kg per cu metre would give a figure of 25 5 10 which i ve never heard anyone using

K.G. · 18-12-2022 09:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006759#Comment_120006759

How did you get the figure of 6500 gls a day.grant it there is no parlour washings in my estimates but a 1000 gls would easily wash most parlours twice in a day and i m saying 2000 gls per day from the same number of cows from just the cow house

mahoney_j · 18-12-2022 10:08AM

Fairly annoying all the regs we are forced comply with here when u see what the likes of the kiwis can get away with …that’s before you’d even mention a china/India etc ….we are a mere drop in a huge ocean in what we produce but yet we are bulldozed into spending millions and millions on things our competitors would laugh at …..I mean there’s kiwi farmers making silage pits and justifying it with its high dm feed that will have no run off …would love a dept inspectors response if we tried it

straight · 18-12-2022 11:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009334#Comment_120009334

Eamon Ryan's answer to that is that we trade on origin green brand. That's why we have so many high value markets, bla, bla, bla. Nobody would buy anything off us if it wasn't for origin green. Claire Byrne and co accept that as a perfectly suitable answer. Those lads have a handful of answers they keep spewing out to get them through their interviews and they never get challenged.

straight · 18-12-2022 11:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009254#Comment_120009254

Maybe the mistake you are making is trying to make reason of their latest notions. It's a bit like this; I dried off my cows this year at 6490 kg supplied. If I milked them for an extra day, or if I sold 1 dry cull cow before year end, it would mean that they excreted 106kgs nitrogen vs 92kg.

They will try everything they can to keep pushing their ideology of more cows, higher stocking rates and less milk per cow. They're the experts after all. Sure it might keep the price of milk up.

ginger22 · 18-12-2022 12:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009545#Comment_120009545

Drying off your cows this year didnt save you. It is the average of 3 years the banding is based on.

Regarding the required slurry storage that doesnt change because of banding. The volume of slurry excreted per cow stays the same regardless.

If anything you will need less storage in the higher bands because you will have less cows.

straight · 18-12-2022 12:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009641#Comment_120009641

I supplied 6580 litres last year and 6350 litres in 2020. So barely stayed under the 6300 average this year but I won't be doing it again. I'll drive them on to 7 or 8 thousand litres now in future.

I agree with what you are saying about storage. Sure it's just common sense but I have heard from my contacts that they are trying to put higher slurry storage requirements on the 106kg cow. As I was saying, they will try everything they can to influence people into higher stocking rates with smaller cows and less milk per cow. And remember.... They are the experts.

I'd be more interested in the UCD Lyon farm approach myself.

mahoney_j · 18-12-2022 12:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009715#Comment_120009715

Experts …..so called experts with agendas ….there has been a complete fascination from Tegasc and advisors with the kiwi dairy model for a long time and we are where we are now because of it …cows have gotten smaller ,stocking rates are increased and quality of beef and male calves has gone backwards as a result ….

ginger22 · 18-12-2022 01:09PM

There is an interesting chart in the IHFA winter journal on nitrates.

They basically do a comparison for a 50 Hectare farm working without derogation.

At present they can keep 79 cows yielding 5608 Ks and 34 replacements 0-1 and 1-2 year olds, total solids per Hectare 674. Then if you reduce to 4500L band 87 cows 36 replacements 484 solids per acre. Under 6500 band, 77 cows and 32 replacements, 634 per Hectare. But if over 6500 Litre band 68 cows and 30 replacements output goes up to 725Ks solids per Hectare.

Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

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