2015 BER, am I screwed?

troyzer · 06-12-2022 11:23am #1

As the title suggests, my BER is from 2015 and it got a C2.

We recently bought the apartment and are looking to upgrade the windows and a few other bits. I've heard before that older BERs are often wildly inaccurate. So you could have a false sense of your current BER, spend loads of money, get a new BER and actually go backwards. Which is terrifying.

Also, the apartment has electric heating. My understanding is that this is basically an insurmountable problem if we want to move to an A rating. But apparently condenser boilers are more efficient? It's interesting that the energy rating is at odds with a carbon rating, or have I read that wrong?

Don't think heat pumps etc are an option due to cost/management company.

Gusser09 · 06-12-2022 11:31am

Why is it terrifying? I think you are over thinking it a little.

We have had our house upgraded It's an 80's semi.

We have the external insulation done, Attic done and cavity pumped. We went from an E to a D1. Not a big rise for the investment.

What matters is your comfort. Forget about the BER.

troyzer · 06-12-2022 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962763#Comment_119962763

Well it matters if you want a lower cost mortgage. But otherwise, I'd agree. Comfort is key, which is why we want to do the windows anyway. They're slightly draughty and loud outside. So we're going to go for triple glazing.

Maybe terrifying is a bit strong, but I'd be fairly pissed off if I was chasing a rating and it went backwards. Which it seems like it has for some people who got their BER more than a couple of years ago.

micks_address · 06-12-2022 11:41am

why didnt you get a ber before buying?

Gusser09 · 06-12-2022 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962793#Comment_119962793

C2 is pretty good anyway. It could be a decent chunk of change to bring it into the B rating. Windows won't be cheap for example. Is a gas boiler an option given it's an apartment? The condenser boiler are brilliant btw.

You have to look at the cost of the improvements versus the amount going to be saved over the course of the mortgage.

With the way prices are gone you could be looking at 15-20k to improve it and get a green mortgage.

Furze99 · 06-12-2022 12:01pm

BER certs are just a general guide. The assessor looks generally looks at the building type, the year of construction and what building regulations were in place then. They aren't paid enough to go into detailed examination of your particular building, let alone apartment afaik. So take it as a bit of a guess and go from there.

[Deleted User] · 06-12-2022 12:07pm

Have you spoken to the management company about changing the windows and whatever else you are planning?

Kaisr Sose · 06-12-2022 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962901#Comment_119962901

Agreed.

The windows in most of not all multi units developments are designated as part of the skin of the building, and not yours to replace. However, the lease for many require the owner to maintain them, even where this is impossible (at height/no balcony/over water etc. Even if allowed, you need the permission of the OMC to replace.

For heating, electric will be your only option if not piped for gas. Many apts are all electric in the period following the gas explosion in the apts in Raglan Court, Ballsbridge, 1987.

sydthebeat · 06-12-2022 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058274755/2015-ber-am-i-screwed

its not that older BERs may be wildly inaccurate, its that the details that the first assessor is allowed to use can be way mor eaccurate that what any subsequent assessor is allowed to use.

When a building is first occupied, the assessor can do what's called a "new final" BER assessment. In this type of assessment the assessor can accurately calculate the u values of the walls, floors roofs etc based on information given to them by the certifying architect / engineer. This will result in a better rating.

when a different subsequent assessor comes in a few years later, they may not have this construction information available to them (in most cases they wont! certifiers are not duty bound to hold documents for more than 7 years) therefore they have to use the default u values depending on the age of the dwelling, which are always way worse than the calculated ones. therefore a dwelling with no changes to it whatsoever will have a worse rating the second time around than the first time.

This is not the homeowners or the assessors fault. this is the way SEAI have set up the system. So its often very unfair to paint the assessors in a bad light when they have to work within the parameters that SEAI set for the system.

troyzer · 06-12-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962795#Comment_119962795

Probably should have in retrospect.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962830#Comment_119962830

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that it probably isn't a C2 under BER methods used at the moment. Gas boiler isn't an option. And even if it was, it seems mad that I could improve the BER by going more carbon intensive.😂

Agree with you that it's probably not worth the upgrades. A lot of them aren't when you sit down to do the maths.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962879#Comment_119962879

Interesting, I didn't know that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962901#Comment_119962901

Yeah, it's fine. Just have to get the same colour.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963312#Comment_119963312

I didn't mean to paint the assessor's in a bad light at all. And I'm not trying to suggest the BER rating before was wrong. But that relying on it now is questionable because if it were done again today, it could be very different.

I was under the impression that the assessor's do all of these measurements when they come out?

I should probably just get a BER done and see what the craic is.

HeidiHeidi · 06-12-2022 4:04pm

I had a BER cert done in 2009 for an apartment, had it done again last month and it was exactly the same.

headtheball14 · 06-12-2022 4:09pm

An air to air heat pump might be possible cost is approx 2 grand . It requires outdoor space to install the pump. May also be eligible for grant

LasersGoPewPew · 06-12-2022 7:39pm

If your windows are letting in a lot of noise then you should consider changing the hinges because the old ones are probably well worn thus leaving a gap and not sealing properly, also look at the rubber seal as they can be worn out and new seals are easily fitted( both can be got from Screwfix), even older double-glazing windows have fairly good sound insulation if there's a good seal. I think you'll get better value for money if you do internal insulation depending on the size of the internal area if you can afford to lose 60mm-100mm off your exterior walls. Draught sealing around windows and doors can make a considerable difference.

shoegirl · 02-03-2023 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964763#Comment_119964763

if its any help, I bought an older house, and spent 900 euro on getting windows new hinges and locks, also some seals had to be reapplied - I had a BER done subsequently for attic top up and u value for windows went from 3.2 to 2.9 - not a huge change but minor repairs might make a small difference, certainly enough to improve comfort & security.

Look at air to air heat pumps or even air conditioners as an alternative to electric heating, or perhaps some of the latest (partial) storage heaters from likes of Dimplex (quantum) or Technotherm TTK that would support zoning and thermostats and get a better score on a BER than old heaters.

2015 BER, am I screwed?

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