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DF Commission Report

1679111229

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I think that Gormanstown should be upgraded as an Air Force and Naval base combined with a smaller Army unit there. Maybe ARW?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭source


    Forget Gormanston, the runway isn't even 1km long and there's a train line at 1 end and a main road at the other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    We could deploy the Naval Vessels like the Clogherhead Lifeboat jonny



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    And soon to have Johnny Ronan's "Port" taking all the commercial freight from Drogheda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,866 ✭✭✭sparky42




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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Is the shiny new small arms firing range at Baldonnell a recent development?



  • Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    while not directly Defence commission related, good to see the new accommodation block opened in Haulbowline y/day with 2 more of the quayside buildings to be refurbished. While not significant in them selves hopefully this signals a sustained commitment to the upgrade of facilities. The sense of the place having being allowed go to wrack and ruin prevails, even extends to broken down to the jetty which was unusable … I know historic sites involve greater upkeep and cost but that is a price that the Government needs to meet on the basis of the current structures and probably needs to be explicitly accounted for in the Defence CapmEx budget. Anyways the expenditure involved on these specific projects is minor in relative and absolute terms.

    IMHO there is a cause and effect where the signal that a poor work environment sends feeds thru to recruitment and retention. While I think there is a major and probably ultimately not feasible effort to boost DF numbers in the coming years, a half decent built environment is part of an overall package which includes pay ….



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Quite a few Politicians in opposition parties miss this. They want the DF budget to focus exclusively on pay and not to "waste" money on military infrastructure or equipment. (Their words).

    I know the standard of Garda recruit improved dramatically as soon as the crumbling McCan Barracks was fully renovated to become the Modern Garda College that exists today. People put more effort in when they feel they are being appreciated for the work they do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Indeed. Having a decent place of work dramatically improves peoples morale and self esteem



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    When will we the smaller elements of the commission report happening such as the air corps and naval service name change and the Army HQ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I don't think they are that small.

    On the contrary, the High Level Implementation report from July last, suggests they need detailed examination by the Attorney General and likely require a comprehensive new Defence Act.

    In the hierarchy of acceptance ratings by Government, all of them and also the appointment of a Chief of Defence, have the lowest priority, labled 'Revert', ie following further Government deliberation.

    The Minister himself has, remarkably, inserted his own footnotes in that report stating that he personally wishes to progress some of these elements asap, but it must be a wider Government decision to do so.

    The HLIR is a very informative document, well worth a read.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    They have to find the budget to change all the stationary letterheads. They can call the components whatever they want, but without warplanes or warships, I would view it as something of a sop with little practical effect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Agree. As presently constituted equipment wise the "Navy" is essentially a fisheries protection service, while the "Air Force" has no clout whatsoever. Investment is badly needed to bring these up to scratch before a name change has any meaning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If they are trying to bring a more balanced partnership to the defence forces between the services it’s a wonder they didn’t go a long the Belgian route and re name all the services such as the Belgians with there Services names.

    if Athlone becomes Army HQ. what does that mean for Custume will it be expanded with more troops or does simply just get a few more Admin staff and a General?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    If that happens (And it's a huge if) all that will happen is Army HQ in McKee will move to Costume. There are no plans to expand the army in the current proposals. DF yes. Army NO.

    The problem has always been DFHQ has been led by the army. Because of how Govt has treated the DF over the years, the 3 arms of the DF felt they were competing for scarce resources. If the Army got APCs, the Navy and Air Corps got nothing. When the navy got new ships, the army got nothing. It wasn't actually the case, but it felt like it.

    The fact also that there were appointments for double the number of colonels the army needed, compared to the 2 other arms, meant that no matter how many staff positions people from the Air Corps and Naval Service held in DFHQ, the senior posts would always be army. There was always moore senior posts wearing army uniforms keen to shoot down any plans to expand the Naval Service or Air Corps lest they get notions that they may be equal in status to the Army. The fact the CoS appointment has been held by a non army person for the last two occasions has further entrenched this position.

    The Air Corps and Naval service had 2 Colonel positions each. (NS also has one which is actually the JAG, naval purely because the NS wanted a College Commandant appointment for years, but by making Jag a naval appointment, it shot down this plan). Because both arms have a staff of roughly 1000 each, logic would suggest that an army of just under 7000 should have the same ratio of colonel appointments, i.e. 14. Instead the army has 32. The quest to rebalance the DF sought to correct this anomaly. Needless to say there is huge resistance from Army HQ.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I Suppose the army from there point of view are protecting themselves as if there is less Cols that means less promotions.

    i take it by your post Custume I’d not favoured by the lads sitting in McKee



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Why would it be, the long serving Officers and Men are well settled in Dublin.

    Where did this talk of Custume becoming Army HQ come from anyway, surely Dublin makes most sense, or at the very least The Curragh and the flexibility it offers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This is the most salient point you've ever made.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    An air corps with civvy aircraft painted green to make them appear more military. At least the old aircraft were more honest about their role with their bright colours.

    A Naval service with ships equipped with a heavy cannon, but not linked to anything other than electro optical guidance and no self defence sensor capability, and nothing else other than manually operated secondary heavy machine guns..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I couldn't have put it better myself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If you are to go by the Leonardo website the Air Corps Operate AW139Ms



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,795 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    We do not.

    The M version is rigged for weapons payloads and strengthened for combat service.

    We operate the bog standard AW-139 MLH civvy that might serve an oil rig or as an executive transport or air ambulance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Leonardo even have a picture of a 105 getting a lift by the air corps for the brouchere



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    That's what happens when you are military launch customers. Door gunner too, though there is no way the DoD will ever let them be sent anywhere where a door machine gun would be needed, and it lacks any other self protection countermeasures.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The 139s as is are perfect for internal security work. But if they ever did deploy overseas they could buy a few proper military spec for the over seas missions and use the standard ones for the donkey work at home



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It's not unusual, see the UH-72 Lakota which is an EC-145. The rule is that it has to be built locally, so in this case, Boeing got the license.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Would have thought the UH1-Y was a sure thing in that regard.



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