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Climate Bolloxolgy.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    I'm pointing out to you that any "food scarcity" globally is not down to production - rather issues like logistics, war etc. The reason we import so much food is down to the ongoing neglect of tillage etc. and basically anything outside intensive livestock/milk production



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭alps


    The food we import is cheaper to produce elsewhere...Its very simple



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Glib and disingenuous Alps.

    Take for example the very basics..wheat and barley??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Ireland has not got an ideal climate for producing wheat. More sunshine needed. East of England, France, northern Italy etc. much better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭alps


    Do we not consume (almost) all of what we produce? I understand completly the anger against imports, used as a tool to drive down the price of native grain...but is this not possible as grain can be sourced cheaper elsewhere due to production costs...

    As distasteful as it may be, the reason we import food has a direct correlation to production costs elsewhere, fruit, veg, chicken and pork being the most effected here..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭nilhg


    Actually we have an ideal climate for producing wheat, we have the highest average yields in Europe, or problem is producing milling wheat for using for human food, a few bad days at harvest ruins the hagberg falling number.

    Feed wheat does really well here, as long as we have working fungicides.

    Go to the table tab and sort by highest first



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Indeed - we were a major exporter of wheat for much of the 19th century even prior to fungicides. Sadly though native varieties with natural fungal resistance were not maintained by the agri services in this state as the seed market became dominated by a few large foreign players and chem companies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    I doubt that there’s ever been a wheat breeding facility in Ireland. There’s a multiplication industry that trial and multiply wheats from Denmark, Germany, France and the UK. Funny that the investment was never made, especially in wheats which is a notorious bad traveler…a variety that grows well in one parish can be a disaster in another parish. Now Irish growers are having to deal with varieties that are suitable to completely different climate and growing conditions…and yet they can achieve yields that are some of the best in the world.

    The importance of the tillage sector in Ireland is summed up perfectly by the article below…it makes for better ‘sustainability’ for other sectors. The tillage sector has suffered decades of neglect by the Government and the ‘Independent’ research authority.



    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/imports-of-big-three-grains-decrease-in-2021-680606



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Its not really a fair comparison. The "world market" is actually a dumping ground for surplus produce, bears no relation to production cost and the supermarkets use that to manipulate down the prices for local producers. That is why we have so few Irish veg growers left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I think it was UCD had a heritage wheat and barley field program on an organic farm in Wexford.

    I was at an open day there pre Covid. Now they were small plots. But there was a large variety of strains.

    Some of the seed companies here, their reps were having a peek on the day. Very interesting looking at the varieties. Most totally different looking to modern treated varieties.

    Edit: The greatest threat to the Irish tillage farmer came from the seed companies and merchants here and patents and licensing and taking the power and control away from the farmer in growing and selling their seed. On the day it was discussed that previously a field could have 40 varieties of corn. All home saved and used year after year. Good luck doing that nowadays.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    The loss of native genetic diversity in crops etc. is extremely alarming for so many reasons as is the power of the Monsantos of this world. Some countries have recognized this and established native seed banks managed scientifically within their state Agri bodies - it reflects very poorly on the likes of Teagasc that little has been done on this here other than a handful of enthusiasts like that crowd in Clare concerning native Apple breeds etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭nilhg


    I'm almost 40 years growing cereals in Kildare, some of my neighbours would be at it longer than that and I've no recollection of there ever being Irish bred cereal varieties, any crop breeding I know of here was potatoes and ryegrass.

    A couple of years ago as part of the 50th anniversary celebrations of ITLUS I was involved in having some demo plots of old varieties sown on the host farm in Carlow, it was surprising how much old genetic stock is available, it took a bit of organisation to get hold of the small quantities we needed so I don't think it fair to say that everything from years ago is gone, but how much is available I'm not sure, of course you'd need very little for a breeding programme.

    When I was in ag college (Warrenstown 1984) septoria nodorum was the big worry as a wheat disease, it didn't take long till that changed and septoria tritici became the prevalant disease, we had loads fo chemistry to control it back then and seemingly every few years something new even better came along, it's no wonder that the crop breeders didn't pay too much attention to it. That's changed now new varieties like Strig and Thorp showed much higher resistance than their competitiors, but that resistance seemed to carry a yield penalty so they never took off, even here.

    Now Yellow Rust seems to be developing as a big problem, something we saw rarely up till about 5 years ago, and even varieties with good resistance can fail quite quickly. You never know where the next issue is coming from...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭endainoz




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,418 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I doubt there are any beds in Tailors Hall but even if there were you'd be hard pressed to find any reds under them 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    40 years ago had already seen most of the loss of native grain breeds - you would have to go back 70 years plus to get any idea of the variety of native strains in terms of oats etc. I remember older family members mentioning the difference in strains in terms of stem length etc. with shorter varieties grown in parts of the country where wind and rain was more of an issue. Alot of younger folk would be surprised to know how small tillage plots were standard on most farms in places like North Mayo and West Donegal up till the 60's or so. Something interesting I learn't recently was the surprising extent of the tillage sector in Iceland with their own climate adapted Barley etc. strains



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    I presume it was spring wheats? How tall were they? I remember swheat being 5 to 6 feet tall when I was a lad. Then Norman Borlaug bred semi-dwarfism into wheat…and fed the world. There’s a misconception that artificial nitrogen was the discovery that fed the world…I’d argue it was Norman. Genius.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭ginger22


    Whether you have a diesel car or not, a fuel heater or something... read this :

    This is a very good analysis demonstrating that our politicians (and the Greens) are giving us a show:

    DIESEL paranoia is only for cars!

    Heavyweights, Buses, Ships are excluded!

    Just to put the degree of paranoia among the most virulent DIESEL haters, it is necessary to reveal the data from the maritime industry that has shown that considering the size of engines and the quality of fuel used, the 15 plus large cargo ships in the world pollute as much as the world's 760 million cars on the planet.

    You know, those containers that feed us products we manufacture in our off-located factories, today burn 10,000 tons of fuel each round trip between Asia and Europe.

    These unfortunate 15 ships are part of a fleet of 3,500, to add the 17,500 tankers that make up the 100,000 ships that sail the seas. (view taken on January 10, 2022 at 6pm)

    In order not to leave the maritime domain, let's remember that the French pleasure fleet is about 500,000 units, including 5,000 yachts of more than 60 meters, and that the average of these burn about 900 liters of fuel in just one hour, alo rs only 24% of households French people who heat themselves with fuel are struggling to fill their tank for the winter.

    To continue on the path of paranoid schizophrenia, let's take into account the entire fishing flotilla and the 4.7 million heavy weights in transit through France.

    The thousands of airplanes moving through the sky and whose consumption per passenger and per kilometer traveled is 3 times more harmful to the climate than the automobile. (view taken on January 10, 2022 at 6pm)

    To complete this little fable, let's not forget the essential farming area where the average energy consumption is 101 liters of fuel per hectare.

    But no panic, the government will definitely save the planet by sticking a new TAX on DIESEL vehicles only... and weaken our automobile industry a little further, which will increase unemployment in the process...

    As you well know, by paying a TAX on petrol, it will not pollute anymore... unless you think you're really stupid .

    This also proves that "newspapers" are bought by power to brainwash us.

    Passing it on is free !!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭nilhg


    One of the things that came from the ITLUS old variety demo that I saw was that many of the old Irish varieties weren't exactly that but local mixtures called landrace, I'm not clear on the technicalities but my understanding was that they were the result of years or even generations of saving and resowing seed on the same farm or in the same geographic area. It's interesting to know seeing as some of the BASE type farmers here now are experimenting with variety mixtures and even companion cropping where 2 species are grown together and either used as feed on the farm or mechanically seperated after harvest and sold.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭nilhg


    No, we grew only Winter Wheat back then, we never had much success with spring wheat, any spring crops were barley, we had an intake for Williams Waller locally so could usually get a malting barley contract, later we moved mainly to winter barley for feed. Now I have much more of a mixture on the farm, this year we have Winter Wheat, Winter barley for malting, Spring barley for malting, hybrid winter rye for feed and forage maize for silage.

    The earliest varieties I can remember here are Norman WW and Goldspear and Midas spring barleys



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,418 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    All may not be as it seems in that ship vs. car story.


    It's also worth bearing in mind the importance of shipping to export our agricultural output.

    In addition ships are vital for imports of feed and fertiliser not to mention tractors and of course diesel cars.

    Newspapers do not exist to brainwash us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    The older generation used to believe that the longer the same seed was grown on a farm the healthier it would get. They reckoned that the seed got more used to the conditions and they were only harvesting the best. I wouldn’t agree. They had a lot of problems with the likes of smut etc. Vigor after 8-10yrs took a hammering also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    I’m talking well before Norman, Goldspear etc. I remember those varieties well, like it was yesterday. Before Norman etc there wasn’t any wwheat, down south anyway, and semi-dwarfism hadn’t been invented. All that was grown was swheat and it’d grow to 4-6 feet tall…40-55cwt was a good crop. However specs would be much better than they are in modern wheats and a lot of it went for milling.

    Norman was a game changer. It was some of the first of the semi-dwarf wwheat. It was a veritable 4 tonner. Any way at all you grew it, 4 ton/ac was réalisable. However with shorter wheats the wheat disease complex quickly became prominent. But these diseases were simply treated with the likes of Carbendazim (MBC), Baleyton cf etc. Nowadays the natural resistance in cereals seems to be non-existant. It’s my argument that these rustic/resistant traits have been bred out of modern wheats. There’s a leading agronomist from the premier seed importers/multiplicators in Ireland calling here for a couple of days this week and of course we will renew the argument. He claims that the natural resistance hasn’t been lost, but the disease strains are evolving to be more resistant to chemicals…he does concede however that due to severe inbreeding of modern varieties, there could be some genetic traits that could possibly help disease resistance, lost. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Jeez elperello, you’re some buzz kill. Of course what you say is true…but everyone knows that and what was passed on was just a bit of fun, and everyone knew that.

    I wouldn’t agree entirely with your statement that newspapers aren’t there to brainwash us. Of course they’re not there to brainwash us, but they do take a position and sometimes go as far as taking an agenda…whether it’s cows are killing the planet, when everyone knows that it’s burning fossil fuels…to Bezos getting his Washington Post to print a ‘serious’ article on why the rich shouldn’t be taxed.

    Either way most MSM have an agenda, one way or another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,277 ✭✭✭cosatron


    30 private planes landed in Shannon over the weekend for jp pro am. Its a bit much now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,307 ✭✭✭amacca


    One doesn't even have to look across the water at the UK rags to see an agenda......plenty of evidence of it here over the years too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,418 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I plead guilty as charged for not recognising your hilarious brand of humour 🙂

    I'm glad we sorted out the bit about about newspapers and brainwashing though.

    Having an agenda is not the same as brainwashing.

    They would need to be up early in the morning to catch you out anyway.

    To finish on a serious note, I reject the MSM tag and would prefer a good newspaper, tv/radio station to most of what turns up online masquerading as opinion or comment.

    A lot of those folk have agendas too and half the time you don't even know who they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,249 ✭✭✭nilhg


    It's really hard for a farmer to follow whats going on in the crop breeding world, certainly pre social media we had no exposure to much international knowledge apart from the odd expert who came to the various conferences, I would say that for a long time ITLUS was the only organisation which tried consistently to bring producers, industry (either agrichems or breeding) and researchers together. As I said earlier I never got a full explanation for the decline of nodorum and the rise of tritici. Certainly the dwarf genes meant that produced leaves closer together let the splash diseases jump up the plant more easily. To be fair t the breeders there is resistance in varieties, but it's not robust and durable, look at what's happening with wheat varieties with the "cougar" gene at the moment, the writing is on the wall for them, even before they fail completly as no breeding house wants to multiply them any more.

    Yellow rust is another example of that, varieties and succomb in a season and go from resistant to susceptible in a growing season. Which brings us back to climate (bollixology or not), my own feeling is that a combination of milder winters and the fact that we seem to get a lot more northeasterly winds in late winter/early spring leads to much higher infection pressure, with inevitable results.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Yellow rust is a nasty pathogen. With drier springs etc and more susceptible varieties it poses a significant risk. Once it gets into grasses etc there’s always going to be high disease pressure given the right weather conditions. Even worse the older chemistry that was most effective is now banned. Stem rust is starting to poke its head here and the UK.

    In my experience all varieties succumb to yellow rust fairly quickly, but some are definitely very susceptible. It’s one disease that can sweep a crop in a few days. The organic lads find mixing 5+ fairly resistant varieties together to be very helpful.



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