Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

exitstageleft · 09-06-2022 5:13pm #1

How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0609/1303868-public-sector-pay-talks/

Mod warning:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200

jaffa20 · 09-06-2022 6:59pm

RTE were saying it should be agreed within 1-2 weeks, whether that is true or not.

Risoc · 10-06-2022 12:41pm

I'd say it'll be done in time to amend the 1% in October to something like 3.5% with something similar for 2023 in a 1.5 year deal.

Shuffl_in · 10-06-2022 2:25pm

Talks will be tough. God knows what the unions will be happy to accept. Forsa will probably bend over easily enough but not sure on some of the others.

New South Wales public servants are currently on strike after receiving an offer of a 3% pay rise (and 0.5% 'likely' next year). They want at least 5.2% to match inflation.

My best guess would be 3% this year and 2% next.

HartsHat · 10-06-2022 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119184033#Comment_119184033

Have Fórsa not done better in recent talks?

The lower grades have got higher percentage increase than the higher grades, I thought?

prettyboy81 · 11-06-2022 8:05am

Surely this is the moment to bring the four day working week to the table. I have read some organisations are piloting this.

Yes it doesn't fit the whole of the public & civil service. However, it would allow for them to do a pay % increase for frontline workers Garda Nurses etc. Whilst, for office type workers no increase in salary but one day less to work no commute spend, childcare & same salary for 4 day week.

Further implementation could come into affect for Garda health care etc over time but to get this deal done without a dramatic increase to the civil public service pay costs.

HartsHat · 11-06-2022 9:15am

Shuffl_in · 12-06-2022 6:01pm

The head of Britain’s largest union has warned of potential strikes this year if the government does not heed its call for inflation-linked wage increases for staff in the NHS and local government.

https://www.ft.com/content/7266de82-6510-4b10-a655-d57ab21335ec

Shuffl_in · 12-06-2022 9:15pm

ICTU wants to see 'very significant' pay increases for all workers

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0612/1304391-pay/

Quitelife · 12-06-2022 9:25pm

Public Sector Workers already get increments every year -these increments each year could be 2 to 4%..These increments were given the last 2 or 3 years when inflation was zero......are we on for giving them another 2 to 3% separate to increments because inflation is high?

If so public servants will get rises of 4 to 7 % whilst private sector get 2-4%??

We should all be in the Public Service not to mention the super pension for a minimal 5% contribution again far superior to the private sector worker.

Shuffl_in · 12-06-2022 9:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193703#Comment_119193703

Its normal for pay to rise with experience, in both private and public sectors.

The new contributory pension (since 2013) is not very good at all.

You can be in the public sector. It's open to everybody.

AndrewJRenko · 12-06-2022 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193703#Comment_119193703

Tell me more about this 2%-4% for private sector?

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0329/1289108-permanent-tsb-staff-to-receive-pay-rise-of-up-to-6-5/

[Deleted User] · 12-06-2022 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193703#Comment_119193703

Public Sector workers do not get increments every year. They get increments annually until they hit the max of their scale, and then, increments stop until they are promoted. Plenty of people get left stuck at the top of scales for years with the only increases being those small percentages from pay agreements..

(Anyone want to give a wild guess at howmany times this will need to be repeated on the thread? )

Get Real · 12-06-2022 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193703#Comment_119193703

I don't even work in the public sector and I never understood this type of attitude.

Join the public sector if you feel that way. Plenty of private sector areas these days where gains can be made by jumping from ship to ship, on top of good yearly reviews. Its an employees market.

Also, if public sector pay increases, this trickles to the private sector as people will leave their private sector roles for this pay and private sector will raise rates accordingly to retain staff.

I can assure you, private companies aren't going to voluntarily increase wages across the board. So it's a positive that a rise in public sector wages forces them to. Benefits all.

Post 2013 pensions are pittance from what I understand, and a reason I wouldn't consider a job in the public sector. If you want it, go out and get it, ironically the free market also applies to obtaining public sector jobs.

SouthWesterly · 12-06-2022 10:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193703#Comment_119193703

What super pension is this I'm supposed to be getting?

combat14 · 12-06-2022 11:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193703#Comment_119193703

many of the increments attract no pay rises for 3-4 years at a time

as on poster mentionned when hit top of scale no pay rise for 10 years ...

[Deleted User] · 13-06-2022 12:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193863#Comment_119193863

And SIPTU seeking 8% for it's private sector members...

https://www.siptu.ie/media/pressreleases2022/fullstory_22954_en.html

[Deleted User] · 13-06-2022 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193703#Comment_119193703

this is almost all a botch of a post tbh and if you wanted to actually know any of what you were botching its all been corrected a hundred times before - so you clearly dont want to know any better but you got your word in anyways so congrats- i think the talks will probably carry on without you but we'll keep you informed how it goes 👍

Quitelife · 13-06-2022 8:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119193863#Comment_119193863

6.5% over 2 years is 3.25% per year which is less than Public Sector Increments not to mind the Extra percentages Public Sector Unions are looking for .

Quitelife · 13-06-2022 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194092#Comment_119194092

Its a GUARANTEED defined benefit pension on your salary for a minimal 5% contribution as opposed to private sector who are totally dependent on their own contribution and their employers which will never match a Guaranteed Defined benefit Public Service pension.

Geuze · 13-06-2022 9:01am

The PS pension contribution is not 5%.

It is 6.5% plus 10% ASC on wages over 34k approx

So if you earn more than 34k, and you get a payrise/increment/promotion, you pay 16.5% pension contribution at the margin.

13-06-2022 9:10am

It worked, all of you quoted them.

SouthWesterly · 13-06-2022 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194726#Comment_119194726

It's based on your average salary over your career and on the years service.

The days of the gold plated pensions are long gone but do keep up the propaganda.

Gusser09 · 13-06-2022 9:34am

Hmmmm. Public servant here lads.

I don't think that solving a cost of living crisis caused by inflation should be solved by throwing public money at the problem. That includes any PS pay rise. It'll be swallowed up quick enough. I think anything that happens needs to be balanced. I'd prefer conditions were reverted (6:57 rather than 7:24 working day) flexi leave reinstated. And also a decent WFH policy. I don't think private or public sector workers should be made go into an office if they can do their job from home.

I'd prefer all of the above than a pay rise. I think the unions have a finite opportunity here to really shape the future of public service in Ireland. The payrise is way to easy to go after.

Shuffl_in · 13-06-2022 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194863#Comment_119194863

It's all well and good saying you'd prefer this and you'd prefer that but understand that some public servants are really struggling to get by. Whether it's commuting costs, child care costs, energy costs etc etc.. everything has gone up. Others are trying desperately to get on the property ladder and every penny counts.

It's very normal for wages to increase with inflation and inflation has shot up. Not everyone can afford the loss of earnings/ spending power which has resulted.

Yes there's the argument that people have to struggle (especially middle/low earners) to ease spiralling inflation. But there are counter arguments too.

All in all, I think most don't expect any new pay agreement to match inflation. Most public servants I know expect to take a hit and understand that they'll take a hit, they just want it minimised as much as possible which is very fair.

We've fallen too far behind inflation. The government have agreed and have opened talks.

Alonzo Mosley · 13-06-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194863#Comment_119194863

You will be working 7:00 per day from July 1st.....

[Deleted User] · 13-06-2022 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194863#Comment_119194863

I knew someone would use this argument, I predicted it on the WFH thread.

If increasing our hours under the HRA agreement was not classed as a paycut when it was implemented, then reverting to Pre-HRA hours now should not be classed as a pay increase.

Pre-HRA hours are being reinstated from 1st July 2022, The pilot schemes for re-introduction of flexi are also beginning and WFH is underway.

But NO. This time I will not be guilted by "think of the economy, think of the country". We were asked to do that during the last recession and we got SHAFTED. And it was barely even acknowledged. 10 years for pay restoration in dribs and drabs.

The responsibility for fixing the "financial crisis" should not be put on us again. This time, I want pay increases and I want them to be decent, and not drip fed.

Sorry, but privileges like the return of flexi and shorter working days will not pay my rapidly increasing food, energy and general cost of living bills. Cash money will.

mtb_sends · 13-06-2022 2:30pm

@Loueze Is the reinstating of pre HRA hours for civil service only or does it extend to the wider public sector. Im starting a public sector role imminently and am wondering if the working hours stated in my contract will basically be changing after the first month.

Augme · 13-06-2022 2:52pm

As @Loueze says, time for cash money and nothing less. Wfh sounds good and it is, there's also the fact that wfh will require a significant additional cost for people to pay. Wfh places many benefits on wider society and the climate too, so it's not a one sided benefit.

Even if the said more annual leave I wouldn't take it, free time with no money to spend ain't exactly ideal tbh.

In saying that, I do understand the difficult situation of dealing with high inflation and gving out pay raises as its a vicious circle. But the government have simply shown zero interest in being creat8ve and trying to address that problem w8th sensible solutions so quite frankly I'm going to demand the cash at this stage.

Also, private sector works are going to lie and spin things to guilt and making public servants look greedy. It is essential they are ignored aswell. This isn't a popularity contest we are entering.

Gusser09 · 13-06-2022 3:06pm

Well inflation will reduce and the cost of living will come back down.

We might be waiting a long lone time for us to be in a position to shape wfh policies etc.

If we were to get 3 percent straight up that would be around 800 or 900 quid a year for a CO on the top of the scale?? That's after tax.

Take the working conditions folks. It'll work out better for your pocket over paying commuting costs including diesel etc.

Fred Astaire · 13-06-2022 3:28pm

It isn't an either or. The reduced working hours are already happening.

It won't just be 3% either. It'll be something like 3% in October and another 2.5% at some point next year, before another re-evaluation. There is also a good chance of a new 30% tax band so you'll have to re-evaluate your calculations.

Working from home will never be something worth sacrificing pay to strive for because there are certain public sector jobs that physcially cannot be done from home. You land in one of those departments and what have you then? Nothing.

When will inflation reduce? When will the cost of living come back down? When another recession comes, and when that happens, they will be back trying to cut those wages like they did before.

Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

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