The Tipperary GAA Discussion Thread

Too many fancy dans tolerated. No work rate. No hooks or blocks. Absolutely no aggression in the tackle, running, or tracking back. No determination to go to a runner heading directly for goal. A bunch of nice guys, not ready to get hurt at the back and up front. AT THE BACK!

NO Aggression.

Forde put in a shift and came out with credit. That's it.

Someone questioning Setanta in connection with S&C and underage teams? It's only been in play a year. Stop. Just stop...

Every player on the squad and extended panel has to be interviewed by a hired, independent company, to find out why there's such a lack of effort on the field. Not the county board doing the interviews.

Same goes for the County board and every role connected to the board - must be interviewed and reviewed by an independent body.

Blaming past, all-ireland winning managers for today's result? Pathetic.

Why is there such a disconnect with fans and team? Needs an overhaul and investigation.

Watching Cork players running around, laughing at the ease with which they have it? Laughing at wides and the unimportance of shooting a wide because they have it that handy... joke of an effort from the players today. Absolute joke. Embarrassed.

Only think I'd hold against Bonnar is the team isn't as fit as it should be. We're not blessed with pace but there's no excuse for the team not being supremely fit.

Apart from that it's bad timing with some fantastic careers coming to an end, younger lads that aren't as good, and the middle lads just not stepping up like they should. Some players didn't look interested out there today and that's a worry, needs to be full buy in for next year or cut them loose.

We've a poor record ever since the new format came in for whatever reason, we've not been able to turn Semple into a fortress, we've been better on the road. Think we've all seen how important it is to promote youth, even if at first they're not good enough, we need to persist and help develop if they have the physical attributes needed. No point promoting them at 23/24 as they'll already be too far behind.

Important 12 months coming up, possible relegation match against Kerry, would like Bonnar to get them in in November and get to work, badly need to get a few wins next season.

There's no problem with age. Players develop at all ages. Some people are just late developers. Some people take off early. Some need four or five years of an apprenticeship (a lot of players). More than enough examples of it. It's all about attitude more than age.

But sometimes you just need to cull a team and rebuild an identity. Only Colm will know if he has the will and drive to take on the 3 years to see if you've been making the right choices.

Heffernan

Breen

Both Flynns

McCormack

Kennedy (not a center back - never will be one)

Cut them and let's see if they can turn it around at club level. The last two might, the rest won't I'd say. They looked frail and cowered under the pressure. Heffernan was struggling to rise the ball. He folded.

Cahill hung his team out to dry, and I knew it would backfire. You can do that with kids, but not at senior level. Anyway, as far as I can see, Cahill has failed to stabilize Waterford as a defensive unit and he is still trying to make the same offensive game plan from year 1 (which has been figured out) work. He hasn't shown variety to his tactics, and I'd have serious questions as to whether he is ready. His team, a lot of them in their prime, has failed to get goals against the top sides in the business end of championship. He has a lot to prove yet. His Waterford project has been a failure. But the only mitigating factor is, these Waterford players have failed so many managers. So I wouldn't look beyond these Waterford players for blame. But I still think question marks exist over Cahill at Senior inter county level. Too fond of the media as a tool to hang out players. He'd make a good analyst, he wouldn't hold back.

Bonnar will get another year I'd say. Cummins might take it in a year or so, if he can get O'Connor to come with him, but if he watches today, he won't want it for three years, I'd say.

Whoever takes the Tipp project on, is taking on a team of players, who for the most part, are not committed when they cross the white line. Fairly gutless stuff today.

Cahill can fast track the development of the young players that he already has a great relationship with. He got them 2 underage All Irelands and they would run through fire for him.

This season is a blot on his copybook for sure but he is still miles, f*cking miles ahead of Bonnar as an option.

They've all played with Sheedy or been on the panel and most of them would have been 18 or younger four years ago...

I've had this conversation numerous times. I saw Craig numerous times, as with many of Craig's peers, they weren't ready. Craig was ready for championship this year but not last year. Fact. He needed the years to get up to the level. Go to the games, you'll see it yourself.

Most of those players had two years at under 20 - some even more.

He didn't skip anything. He had up to 13 of them on the panel - they've been given every chance - some of them numerous. I've been at all the games. Some of them still getting chances and not taking them.

lets be honest , how many players were tipp missing over the course of the championship ...10 ? bubbles , callananan and john McGrath is too much for any county

In 2019 Clare lost in the Munster round robin to Tipperary at home by 13 points. A week later they lost to Limerick by 18. In 2020, Lohans 1st year in charge, they lost to Limerick by 10 and Waterford by 9 points, having scraped past Laois by a single point. That year they also had drawn with Antrim in the league and sirens were sounding for them. But steady improvement was being made. The team they are now is incomparable to where they were 2 years ago. A few additions in personnel, but the core big game players they had in 2019/2020 are still there today.

The point being, the personnel to do what they are doing now was always there. What they were missing was the right man in charge and the time to improve.

Yesterday left me feeling as bad, if not worse than I did in 2007, but now just like then, things are not as bad as they seem. I firmly believe the core of players are there to be ultra competitive. But is the right man in charge and will he be given the time.

I was giving Bonnar time all year. Waiting for some pattern to emerge, some defensive security to be instilled. A workrate with fitness and ultra conditioning to become apparent. But it has been so hit and miss I am left pondering if next year will see progress or be wasted if his backroom team remains on. We look less fit now than we did in January. We showed flashes this year, but only in bursts. 1st half league against Waterford, last 20 mins against Dublin, first 35 against Waterford, first 60 against Limerick. Nothing against Clare and 10 mins against Cork. And lets not forget the personnel missing and the sequence of events this year that acted as hammer blow after hammer blow.

Connolly, O'Mara, O'Meara not making themselves available. Connors ankle break. Maher forced retirement. Callanan injury. O'Dwyer injury. Bowe injury, Dunne ban, McGrath injury, Quigley injury, Forder injury (who was carrying it for some time apparently) and even yesterday, Barrett injury all be it after the game was settled.

So are these flashes of what could be there enough for a 2nd year? I honestly dont know.

We have leaders on the pitch. Barrett and Maher I though both stood up again yesterday. Noel McGrath worked and worked. He is still just a classy player and a true leader. But Heffernan and Breen did not perform as needed as senior players. McCormack worked but his form is not there. Forde was very good. Glimpses of what a fit Forde can be but rather than an out and out General, he is more of a marquee forward 0-5 from play. Jake Morris worked very hard all day, 1-2 from play. Kehoe had a thankless task and still caused trouble up front. He didnt score but set up the goal and won the penalty. There was a lot asked of him yesterday. I thought he did well. Morgan and Stakelum did ok, they're rookies. What I am getting at is the pieces are there, but the structure doesnt seem to be, not even a hint of one yesterday and thats the worry. S&C is also a worry. So are we only lacking in these areas and can the current management over come those issues? Im not sure.

I was very anti Cahill after his decision last year. His failure at Waterford though, is less a reflection on him and more on the Watreford players as this is not the first time this has happened. And its happened to multiple managers down there too. Should the door be open for him?

Our personnel problems are in goals, half backs, midfield and half forward but only maybe 1 position per line I feel.

If we could merge both Hogans we would have an all star goalie. One has good distribution, the other is a fantastic shot stopper. Its an area of worry, But do Clare or Waterford or Galway have any better, really?

Get O'Mara into that team - half back line improves greatly. Ronan to 3, the full back line is strong. Byrne, Quirke, Cadell, McGrath, Quigley, Connolly all prospects still. Heffernan needs a rocket up his backside. The right manager can do that. He has so much hurling its a shame to see him waste years not fulfilling his potential. So there is depth enough in that back line to make a team out of them. A mix of leadership, physicality and athleticism.

Midfield is an issue. Stakelum, Connolly, Connors?

Forwards, Noel another year or two at 11. Bowe, McGrath, Forde, Bubbles for another year fit, Callanan for another year fit, O'Meara, Kehoe and Morris. Breen has a place, but maybe not always a starter. McCormack maybe less so at this stage.There is a team capable of challenging there.

Have we the right management in charge to get whats there out of this team?

Big changes needed regardless of who is in charge next year. Big changes in the championship will happen aswell. Dublin, Waterford, maybe Tipp, maybe Cork, maybe Kilkenny could all have new managers. Limerick management look stressed this year aswell, 6 years on the road for them.

Believe it or not I feel Dublin, Wexford, Kilkenny, Waterford and Limerick are also all on a downward trajectory. Obviously some starting from a much higher place than others. So not only is it a Tipp transition, it may be a championship wide transition and now is the time to get it right for next year and try to make hay from 2023 to 25 or 26. We have been in decline since 2020, we now need to start our ascent a year or two before the others.

I think Forde was injured or managing an injury from just before the Waterford game. But I may be wrong on that. Sunday was closer to his true ability. Able to win his own ball. Able to score from anywhere. Maybe not one to rally a team but his scoring ability can motivate all around him. He caught one in the 2nd half above 3 fellas, darted towards the middle of the field and arrowed over the bar. Something McCormack, Browne etc cant do. 5 from play yesterday, 7 from play in last years Munster final.

There was times yesterday in the 1st 20 mins where we tried to swing a few over under a little pressure and to watch them fall short or drift wide I was saying to myself how we needed a Bubbles out there. The sad thing is, a fit Forde stays on frees and penalties, we probably go 7 points up, and a fit Bubbles we probably tack on 2 or 3 more scores in that 1st 20 mins. We still lose but not as badly. On the flip side it masks the lack of fitness/intensity/effort and game plan.

Tipp people need to be convinced about S&C because we have the wrists that other counties dont have. If we could come close to the intensity and work rate Clare bring but with a better game plan to our non existent one now, its our skill that pushes us ahead. At the moment we are so far off on game plan and condition and intensity we cant get close enough for our skill to make the difference. People might say how no one from Tipp would make the Limerick team. Fully fit, Id have Noel or Forde or Bubbles over Flanagan or Mulcahy or Morrissey or O'Neill every day. Limericks forward dominance comes from 3 sources; Lynch, Hegarty and Gillane. Life for the others around them is made much easier by these 3.

If Tipp folded after ten minutes against Cork, how can S&C be an issue as so many claim? They went for 62 mins against Limerick and beaten by a savvy outfit. It's psychological and not anything to do with S&C.

That's why it's down to the players mostly for me, you can go 62 mins against Limerick. But you miss a penalty and fold after ten minutes? Nothing to do with fitness.

I'm not giving Bonnar a pass by saying that either, that's why I'm calling for an independent body to interview the players to find out what's going on. It's badly needed.

get real will you!!!