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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They are scientific claims as they track the data from the beginning of the vaccination program which shows that until there was almost total population coverage of some sort of antibodies, that the unvaccinated were more likely to be infected than the unvaccinated.

    This is excluding factoring in that older and more at risk are more likely to get tested and more likely to test positive and the fact that this data was expected from the beginning due to these factors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I would also add that the example I gave was for a controlled environment and in a controlled environment with frequent testing of the groups, those who are unvaccinated are still more likely to be infected.

    In an uncontrolled environment where testing is voluntary, self-reported for antigen and only the vulnerable groups are still testing, the figures shown are entirely expected.

    This was why I made the distinction in the explanation, but it seems to have also been missed on an anti-vax crusade.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Pulling the rereg card out of your pack again I see. When ye have nothing else to post,ye post the possibility of someone being someone else. The paranoia is strong today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,223 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Again, you're posting as if you have intimate knowledge that's not possible for you to have if you were only here a few days.


    If you had actually been here before, you would know that conspiracy theorists have been caught many, many times registering new usernames and pretending to be entirely different people.

    It's a very common and dishonest tactic they engage in for some reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Can you please identify the conspiracy you seem to believe in?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It can probably go on a separate thread, but organic pesticides and herbicides are just as much chemicals as non-organic "manufactured" product, often using molecules of similar chemistry to achieve their result (and sometimes manufactured in similar ways). it's great to see organic farming, but it still doesn't have the volume to feed everyone and has other issues that make it less "green" than marketed (and it's been great to see technology used in the last few years to better target and reduce the requirement for pesticides and herbicides on a modern farm).

    I grow truly organic (no herbicides or pesticides used) vegetables and fruit in my garden, but I'm not kidding myself that it's really that much better than what is grown on my relations farm and understanding a bit of the chemistry involved due to another family member making organic based products for dealing with pests and fungii (and seeing the MSDS sheets thereof).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    I'm here a few days and I was accused of being a rereg by a few of you. Is that intimate enough for you ?

    And this thread is about conspiracy theories, not about debunking them.

    If you're so confident that you guy's are 100% right ,why do you have to keep the fire burning.

    Are you afraid we'll influence people's choice's ?

    It's been pointed out to you on numerous occasions that the vaccines don't work as first advertised. They don't work for what they were originally intended to do.

    All the traditional vaccines work, hep jabs, measles, HPV, whatever else I left out, I've been vaccinated for a lot of things and they worked for whatever their intention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    One of the same one's you don't believe in, you can make your own mind up. You'll be a while decoding that one. Keep you busy for a while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,223 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So you're not a rereg then? Cool. That's very believable.

    As I've said, since you are so new and uninformed, conspiracy theorists have been caught reregging many times.


    And yes, this thread is about the conspiracy theories. Unfortunately this includes the possibility that they are false and based on bad information, ignorance and dishonesty.

    If you don't wish to see people challenging your beliefs, there's plenty of conspiracy theories safe spaces out there for you where you are sheltered from doubt and questions and you can belief and create your fantasy to your hearts content.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    So you admit to just trolling here because you don’t believe there is a conspiracy about the vaccine safety.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,223 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    We're getting close to 200 pages of yet another thread where theorists aren't able to actually answer the basic question about the theory.

    We haven't seen any of them actually point to any safety issues that aren't already known and accounted for, and are more dangerous or concerning than the dangers from covid.


    This is upsetting to a lot of them, so they're trying to deflect back to the debunked lies about the effectiveness of the vaccine. Our latest guest who is totally a new person and not a rereg is upset and just trying to waste time for some reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    I admit that you're more than likely trying to get rid of anyone you deem able for the likes of your trolling and hypotenuse child like degree of getting your angles all mixed up. You're trolling me right now. But I'll just hop over the the other bridge...trip trap trip trap.

    So you admit you're trolling, come on lad you are like a non playing character in a simulation. As much self awareness as an apple.

    You can post away with your fantasy about all the rereggs and trolls here, because that's all you are concerned about. Trools and rereggs.... Counting your chicken's before they hatch....



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    No. I’m trying to figure out what the conspiracy is. If you can’t identify one then you’re trolling and bullshitting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭snowcat


    So you cant name one chemical. OK. And now you are implying that organic farming is not as 'green' as marketed. Could you fill me in on organic farming methods that are less 'green' than traditional methods and ill consider changing over? If you trust GMO so much just buy GMO seeds and spray your plot with Roundup and enjoy the barren brown soil with huge carrots to be harvested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    You've page's and page's on this thread about the conspiracy theory. I think you're well able to look for it yourself. You don't need my help.

    As for bullshit, you've left piles of it throughout the thread. I'm sure you can follow it by scent as it seems like you're too blind to see it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    So what was your previous/other username. Be honest, as it saves hassle of having the same discussions over and over.

    To date there have been no conspiracy theories describes in this thread. It has just been a moan fest by CT’ists about nonsense such as rfid chips in vaccines, magnetic vaccines, mask wearing, etc. So please do the honour of posting the first conspiracy theory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Seems like the debunker hasn't a clue about organic farming. I can't really see him in the middle of February digging up rotten seaweed with a strong southwesterly and rain in his face, then bagging it and that lovely aromatic bitter sweet smell of decaying crustaceans, shellfish in the back of the van or car, sandhoppers all over the place.

    Sowing tagetes menuta seed's helping with nematode problems in his organic vegetable patch...

    More like feeding them miracle grow and lots of it... after all a good organic gardener uses chemicals



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Yes, they are very upset. The thread is getting dragged off to every topic apart from covid vaccine safety. They have completely run out of covid vaccine safety lies to tell. I’m surprised they haven’t mentioned Manchester City’s 2012 league win yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,223 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But we're ruining the discussion of conspiracy theories though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Don't worry about rereggs, seriously if you think someone is going to admit they're a rereg they'll probably get a ban. Most rereggs probably have a VPN anyhow, I don't have one of those. I've only two email addresses. One for work and another for personal use.

    You see all I can see here is banter and harmless squabbling. There's no fun in debunking. I like a good story, like a mystery, joining the dots.

    I read the charter and it says be respectful of each other's opinions and people see things differently. That's not what the spirit of you guy's, ie the debunkers.

    By the way the conspiracy is about the safety of vaccines.

    The question is are they safe to use, or used to be safe ?

    Are they really stored safely, the right temperatures etc

    Maybe you're right, nobody knows what the hell's going on here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The SARS-COV2 vaccine is more effective than many of those you've listed, what's different is the virulence of SARS-COV2 makes you more likely to encounter it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This is ridiculous. First list what you think a chemical is, then list any organic pesticide or herbicide and we can work through the chemical reactions involved that allow it to work.

    I also never said traditional farming methods were as green, I said that organic farming is not as green as it claims to be (the input per produce is higher in terms of labour for one, that labour will involve machinery unless being done at the micro-farming level).

    And again you're conflating GMO with herbicide and pesticide usage, GMO don't need as much applied, if your goal is mass production with as little inputs as possible, GMO is the answer, if you want non-GMO produce, then you need to add more fertilisers and spray it more often, or you can go the organic route and produce a fraction of the produce at a far greater labour, input and land cost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Thankfully COVID hasn't encountered me yet or I it. Not that I know of.

    Well then, maybe they'll come up with a better vaccine in order to outsmart any mutations.

    It's not as bad now as it was, if one's worried about catching it and they are confident with talking it. I respect their choice.

    You pointed that out quite clearly, simply put. Kudos to you.

    I can't argue with that post.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭hometruths


    • People who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19.
    • People who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus for a few months which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks.

    These are not scientific claims.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭snowcat


    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/aug/14/organic-farming-agriculture-world-hunger

    The typical pro drug ,pro chemical, mindset coming through. I understand now the reverence for vaccines. Its a chemical and has been approved so it is good. "trust the science"



  • Subscribers Posts: 40,721 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭snowcat


    You are the one taking the injections and eating the crop. Not me. I am lucky enough to be successful and wealthy to have the choice of what i eat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Be sure to stick to your guns and ignore any future medical advice and refuse all medical treatment, because science.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Yes but when you are in the STEM area are you not allowed to make your own educated judgement. Yes there may be no conspiracy. Yes there may be no immediate safety concern, but as an educated scientist you decide to hold off. Is that terrible?

    Science has always been the brave questioning general beliefs that are considered to be correct at the time and if you question those you had the possibility of being declared a heretic. It was not long ago we burnt persons at the stake for questioning the rotation of the earth and the sun.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Ok, so there is no safety issue or conspiracy theory with the covid vaccines, so why are you dragging the conspiracy theory topic on? Why are you actually posting in support of conspiracy theories? It’s quite odd.



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