Private owners rights in an apartment complex

Runster · 23-04-2022 2:08pm #1

Hi there,

I have a mortgage in an apartment complex that was built just before the boom ended and the bubble burst.

The developers went bust.

A group of the apartments never sold and NAMA took them over.

A property company (we'll call them PC) bought them up and are renting them out.

This PC seems to be trying to control the complex.

When I google the name of our complex, the title of our complex appears with a pipe separating it from the title of this property company.

This is a pipe: |

They own about a third of the apartments.

It would appear to anyone googling that they own the complex.

I didn't think that type of thing was allowed?

Also, this PC seem to be dictating what the management company do.

They own the minority of the apartments but are implementing initiatives that they have in our complex.

Then the management company are trying to drive their initiatives through the complex.

Their initiatives are good but they never included the private owners in the planning or decision making.

They implemented one really big initiative in their own apartments which costs a lot of money.

This particular initiative only works when all apartments are involved in it.

The management company planned and implemented it with them without bringing it to the board or the AGM, knowing this would affect our complex

and knowing it would cause conflict in the complex.

I spoke to the management company about it and was told that it will be implemented throughout the complex.

It just hasn't happened yet.

This was not government legislation; this was a decision by the PC and the management company

to do this privately with their apartments.

I think the property management company should be held accountable for not bringing it to the AGM

and that they should pay for it if it is to be implemented.

Otherwise I am planning on boycotting any decision to use our fees to pay for it.

Do I have a leg to stand on?

JayPS 2288 · 23-04-2022 3:09pm

The owners of the apartments ARE the management company. Ideally it would be one person, one apartment, one owner, one voice.

Since PC own one third of all units, therefore they represent 33% of the “voices” and will have massiv clout in terms of introducing new rules or changing / redacting existing rules.

Hontou · 23-04-2022 3:28pm

There is something similar happening in a complex where I bought one apartment recently. I wonder is it the same complex. Is yours in Galway by any chance? I was planning on bringing it up at the first AGM I go to.

Runster · 23-04-2022 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965796#Comment_118965796

No its in Dublin, there is a massive presence of this PC in Dublin complex's.

I'm going to start looking into government legislation about it.

I'm not sure if these PC type of companies are actually being regulated.

There should be some regulator monitoring the business relationships between the PC and property management company.

For the record; the property management company is a business that is employed by the apartment owners to 'run' the complex.

They are employed by the apartment owners through a yearly management fee. You would imagine that the private owners would be at least

informed about an initiative that affects the entire complex before it is implemented.

Hontou · 23-04-2022 3:37pm

Exactly. Let us know here what you find out. This must be a nationwide problem.

Runster · 23-04-2022 6:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965841#Comment_118965841

Let us know here what you find out as well.

Mrs OBumble · 23-04-2022 11:39pm

When was the last AGM? What happened when you raised your concerns?

Runster · 24-04-2022 12:44am

I didnt go to the AGM as I was so annoyed by their carry on. I thought I might get really upset.

I believe there was no decision about it at the AGM but I was speaking to management and they told me it will be going ahead.

I'm not paying for it though.

If the management company think it's fine to treat the owners like tenants, making plans and decisions behind our backs then they can pay for it. Hopefully the other owners will back me up.

If we let this go then they will keep treating us like that.

I have a feeling though that they will go along with the plans just to keep the peace. You know the usual way that the Irish behave.

I'll take it to a TD or regulator if I have to.

I mightnt have control over the common areas but I do have control over what happens inside my own home.

Runster · 24-04-2022 12:44am

Caranica · 24-04-2022 2:33am

The management company can of course make decisions on how fees are spent without involving the owners. The budget will be agreed at the AGM but there will always be discretionary expenditure.

You didn't go to the AGM, because you might get too upset? What you should have done was go to the AGM and join the board of directors. Nobody else will better protect your investment than you will.

Not paying fees will put you in breach of the contract you signed at purchase. That won't end well for you.

Runster · 24-04-2022 3:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118968382#Comment_118968382

This piece of work is not included in the fees. This is an extra if you like.

If the shoe was on the other foot and the management company did this behind the PC back. They would start cutting business ties with them.

Thargor · 24-04-2022 3:16am

What's being done that's upsetting you exactly?

Caranica · 24-04-2022 3:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118968393#Comment_118968393

Check your contract, you may still be obliged to pay.

spuddy4711 · 24-04-2022 6:13am

A PC, not aware if it’s same as OP, has a policy of upgrading the fire protection in each of their apartments. This involves removing the hall plaster ceiling and increasing the wall height to the concrete ceiling. Their rental apartments will have greater fire protection than the owner apartments which may be next door.

Mrs OBumble · 24-04-2022 7:18am

For all you know, the other private owners may be in favour of the work being done.

If the PC has 1/3 of the votes, then it would not take many others to agree in order for a majority to vote in favour.

Have you spoken to any of them?

Runster · 24-04-2022 4:28pm

I think everyone is missing the point, i already said their initiative is good.

This thread was set up because CP is trying to control our complex.

Obviously the Management company is controlled by them as well.

When I bought my home, I didn't sign a contract with CP; I'm not their tenant.

When they came to the complex I didn't sign a contract with them then either.

Even if every owner in the complex decides to buy into it, they cant make me do it.

Its my home. You don't see the management company involved in ensuring everyone has

their pumps replaced. They would tell us its inside our own home so its our responsibility.

You don't see them telling us to replace our extractor fans even though they are part of the cause of rust and mold

inside our bathrooms and they are causing actual current real time health risks.

Runster · 24-04-2022 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118968475#Comment_118968475

I already addressed this earlier before you wrote the above. You seem to be more interested in winding me up than adding value to the thread.

My response to that was that I won't be paying for it.

Caranica · 24-04-2022 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970164#Comment_118970164

Your problem is you don't own your home, you have a lease from the management company. They can mandate that you do it and if you check your contract you'll see that you agreed to that.

sam t smith · 24-04-2022 8:34pm

This thread is going around in circles.

Next time, identify like minded owners, all of you attend the AGM (or assign a proxy if unable to attend) and exercise your rights.

Starting a thread on here without attending the AGM is pointless.

pinkypinky · 24-04-2022 8:38pm

Are you confusing the managing agent with the Owner's Management Company (who appoint an agent).

If you don't go to the AGM and engage, it's hard to get support for other initiatives. If you get enough people together to form a quorum, you could call an EGM to discuss this in the proper setting. However, if this PC owns enough apartments, they'll be able to block anything they like.

Runster · 24-04-2022 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971230#Comment_118971230

If we employ a management company who goes behind private owners backs then they need to be sacked.

As I said earlier if they did the same to CP; they'd be cutting ties with them

Runster · 24-04-2022 9:07pm

Runster · 24-04-2022 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971259#Comment_118971259

I fully intend on going this year.

I cant say I've been enlightened by anyone on the thread about my question. The only one who offered any relevant input was the OP who mentioned that a similar occurrence is taking place where they bought.

Mrs OBumble · 24-04-2022 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971391#Comment_118971391

Good.

Talk to other possibly like minded owners beforehand.

Caranica · 24-04-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971383#Comment_118971383

You don't seem to get it. The management company is the owners management company of which you are a member. The directors are elected at the AGM. The management company hire a management agency to look after the day to day running of the development. The directors are charged with making decisions in the best interests of the development, and such decisions do not need to be ratified by any other owners. Like I said already, stand as a director, be part of the process.

Runster · 24-04-2022 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971275#Comment_118971275

.

Runster · 24-04-2022 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971630#Comment_118971630

You don't seem to get the initial comment.

The PC and the Management Company did private business with each other without informing the board or the AGM.

This business affects the entire complex.

So when that kind of thing happens it doesn't matter if you attend the AGM and are a board member because it's taking place behind your back okay.

Caranica · 24-04-2022 10:26pm

Management company or management agent? If it's the agent, call an egm and sack them

Runster · 24-04-2022 10:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971760#Comment_118971760

Thank you!

I will ask that specific question at the AGM.

So far I have had to draw what happened out of the PC Director as the management company told us nothing.

I will attend the AGM and ask who specifically ordered the plans to be carried out.

I only know that the complex Project Manager from the management company was planning and implementing the initiative with

the the PC for almost a year without saying anything on the board or at the AGM. The PC Director told me this. I also know the Director of the management company knew about it.

After that I have no idea who gave the orders. I will ask.

silent_spark · 25-04-2022 9:18am

You ARE the management company. The management company (made up of all the owners, including you, and including the property management company that owns 33% of the apartments) hired the management agent. I think you’re not getting the responses you were expecting as you seem to be unsure of the distinction and it makes it difficult to follow when you use terms interchangeably.

Runster · 25-04-2022 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972603#Comment_118972603

Well when you use the terms like that then the answer is the management agent.

Private owners rights in an apartment complex

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