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Converting to Organic farming

  • 30-03-2022 2:54pm
    #1
    Easten
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭


    Thinking of converting to Organic farming. My plan is to be ready for next year. I haven't done any course yet but am booked in to do one in May. Anyone any experience of the whole procedure?

    I'm currently on Suckler Beef, very extensive system running 32 Cow pairs rearing the Weanling to year olds. I know about the Straw bedded housing and this seems to be a bit of a deal breaker for me as I have slatted house system, I wonder can they be converted?

    Also would you still qualify for all the other Schemes such as ANC, SFP, Suckler Welfare etc on Organic?

    Anyone know the stocking rates?



Comments

  • #2
    JohnChadwick
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭JohnChadwick


    Yep same as yourself except have cubicles. 40 sucklers. Don't use any straw.

    In your slatted shed situation wonder could you let them walk in and out of a field beside it possibly. To give them that 3 square metre lie back space.

    Qualify for all the schemes but you may watch out for the one that replaces Glas (reps or reap or whatever) as if you double up and land parcels you lose euros. That could be different next time round.

    From my experience in the organic there has always been a cheap, handy solution to adapt my current setup. Remember at the start hearing the same craic about the straw, and the price of meal. Don't use much of either in any case.

    Stocking around 1.0 Lu/ha seems handy so far anyway.



  • #3
    Easten
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118857206#Comment_118857206

    Are you already in Organic John, and what do you mean by doubling up land parcels for Glas?

    I already have lie backs for the Calves, I suppose a few cows could use it but they would still have to be on slats to feed them so idk whats the story.

    I'm almost at the 1 LU/hectare so getting under that shouldn't be a problem. I wonder how the fertility of the land would hold up in organic farming



  • #4
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118857370#Comment_118857370

    You’d be well under the 170 units N a hectare so you could help out a intensive lad and take some slurry and fym?



  • #5
    JohnChadwick
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭JohnChadwick


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118857370#Comment_118857370

    Yea in organic around 5 years. No lie back for cows or calves. Just cubicles and they have a bit of space in the feeding yard. Not using any straw, none at all.

    Do you know in Glas if you selected a field as LIPP, then you couldn't get the organic payment on it simultaneously.

    Going forward it depends on how the eco schemes are set up, and what options you select, altho think I read that from 2023 it will be possible to get double bubble on eco scheme and organic land parcels (as they try to encourage the organics uptake).



  • #6
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118858012#Comment_118858012

    Not if your P levels are index 3 or above. Easten why are you waiting a year? Go to a few of the farm walks/open days too,

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • #7
    Easten
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118859174#Comment_118859174

    I think I will.

    With current fertilizer prices set to be high for at least another 12-18 month, maybe they might never come back down to anywhere near the prices we were use to I think it's time to move on from that type of farming for now. It'll be interesting to see if there are any organic farms out there that can really compete with conventional farming



  • #8
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,236 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Is organic better or worse for the lad who buys stock in.


    I'll be about 1 Lu to the hectare or slight bit more for next year.



  • #9
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    OP....the only way you'll be sure of your particular requirements is to have a consultation with one of the two accredited Irish bodies.



  • #10
    Easten
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865498#Comment_118865498

    I know,

    I'm going doing the course in May, and as Blue suggested I'm going to do any farm visits available. I'd like to have a good long list of questions for them. Too often I done them courses only to leave with more questions than answers or thinking of a question after that I should have asked!!



  • #11
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,629 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    I would also have a chat or visit with established organic producers like Tommy Earley in Leitrim or Kim McCall in Kildare - both do regular open days on the subject and are very sound chaps to talk too



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  • #12
    James2022
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭James2022


    Kim McCall runs a great farm. Learned a lot from one of the days on his farm. Top quality stock to back up his organic approach to.



  • #13
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,629 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870350#Comment_118870350

    Yeah - you can see how his Aubrac herd wins so many awards and fits in so well with his system. Of course he farms decent land outside Kilcullen so its important to look at systems as similar to ones own ground as possibly. Tis why I also mentioned Tommy Earley too as his place on the shores of Lough Allen in Leitrim, would be more typical of much land West of the Shannon. He uses mainly AA in his system and has also done amazing work using Rushes as organic bedding, fym and as fuel for a boiler that heats and lights the whole set up!!



  • #14
    Conversations 3
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Conversations 3


    Which organic group would be the best to go with or are the much the same?

    I think cut off is Friday, will I have a hope if making it in by then? When does it reopen?



  • #15
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Are you doing for financial or idealistic reasons



  • #16
    Conversations 3
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Conversations 3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882653#Comment_118882653

    Bit of both I suppose, they're pushing people that way and we are beef anyway. My father is stepping back a bit and so it makes sense to go for it now while I'm working off farm.

    Can always go back of it doesn't work out.



  • #17
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882349#Comment_118882349

    Scheme is gonna be extended by two weeks. Announcement will be made in the morning by Pippa



  • #18
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭endainoz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883985#Comment_118883985

    Undersubcribed again it seems. Have been told by people in the know that all a person needs to be accepted this time around is to fill in the form. They really did lose confidence of the people that got rejected previously.



  • #19
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,734 ✭✭✭893bet


    If you are in The Reap scheme can you apply this year for conversion?



  • #20
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Massively underscribed there's room for 600 with the budget and there will only be the half of that. Everyone is waiting for the scheme in October as there may be higher payments for that scheme. That scheme will probably be filled.



  • #21
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭endainoz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886447#Comment_118886447

    I'm assuming your referring to AECM? Would be nice to get clarification on if payments will be coupled with organics or if it will be a GLAS situation. Would definitely make financial sense to me as going by the map I'd be in the higher payment area.



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  • #22
    k mac
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭k mac


    Can someone just apply and if accepted still then decide whether they convert or not



  • #23
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭endainoz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887263#Comment_118887263

    You can, but you'll still have to pay the certification fee as far as I know



  • #24
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887075#Comment_118887075

    No I'm talking about the OFS, there is going to be another tranche opened in October. The new environmental scheme will be the same as GLAS, there will be no double funding allowed.



  • #25
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887263#Comment_118887263

    Your conversion starts the day you submit your application so no



  • #26
    k mac
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭k mac


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887497#Comment_118887497

    So as i am in GLAS now and hope to join REAP or whatever it is called when GLAS finishes, so this means if i am in the organic there will be some measures i cannot gain entry to in the new scheme (REAP) ?



  • #27
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭endainoz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887497#Comment_118887497

    The reason I referred to AECM especially to do with the higher tranche areas, although we don't know what the scheme will be about as of yet, the higher payment areas apparently will have measures that will use the entire farm, hence the higher payments.

    But in that situation, if what your saying is true, a person in both would not get an organic payment at all and would essentially just be paying the certification body to keep status and not get paid elsewhere.

    I'm not sure if that would happen but I could be wrong. It was the case in GLAS yes, but land areas eligible were capped: ie a cap of 10 Ha for LIPP. We obviously need proper information on AECM soon.



  • #28
    manjou
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭manjou


    They say that you will be able to claim both but would not bet on it either the thing about organic is that it gets you into tier 1 straight away and so eligible for the scheme . So you could be organic and not in organic scheme just pay organic body and go into most paying schemes and use organic to get you in.



  • #29
    Easten
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    Is anyone in Organics and doing dairy? supplying organic milk or even just standard milk?

    Or is this really an option as no chemical fertilizer may hamper production



  • #30
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,629 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940429#Comment_118940429

    Last time i checked organic processors were offering fixed contracts of 73c/litre. Margins likely looking even better now versus conventional given the huge rise in input costs for latter



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  • #31
    Easten
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Easten


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940550#Comment_118940550

    That's no small change. What's the catch?



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