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Increased Bill

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  • 15-03-2022 2:35pm
    #1
    BalboBiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭


    Hi Guys,

    I'm close to the end of a big renovation and the builder had been adding to the initial quote throughout the process and asking me to confirm if I wanted to proceed with the extra costs. I agreed to these which added roughly 20k to the bill. However now he is asking for an extra 15k on top of this now that the job is done. Do I just have to accept this or should he have confirmed it with me. I presume this extra 15k is due to increase in labour costs but he is very disorganised and never mentioned any of this to me. I don't want to leave him footing the bill for these extra costs but I also don't want to be taken advantage of.



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    #2
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237478/increased-bill

    You're being taken for a ride. Did he give you a proper written quote for the work originally ?



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    #3
    BalboBiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭BalboBiggins


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788255#Comment_118788255

    Yes the original quote is on an excel spreadsheet and then he added the 20k to it in detail. It's just now he sent an invoice for an increased amount.



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    #4
    C. Eastwood
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    Did you have a professional retained. (Building Surveyor or Engineer or Architect.) before the builder commenced.



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    #5
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    I would bea definite no to an extra 15k at this late stage. IF they provide you with a very detailed bill of how, what and why this amount is for, and it looked genuine, I might agree to pay a contribution. But definitely not a penny by default.



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    #6
    BalboBiggins
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭BalboBiggins


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118788455#Comment_118788455

    Yes I have an engineer signing off on the structure. I had an architect plan the build but decided not to have him involved beyond the planning stage as he was a disaster.



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    #7
    Calvin001
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Calvin001


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237478/increased-bill

    Can he come in at the end and get c.€15k - no.

    If he splits out what exactly the €15k is for, and can back it up with letters confirming the increases, then as long as he bought the materials in time (and timing is important as its the time he should be buying the goods based on his original programme and any delays to his programme outside of his control) then you will have to listen to his argument and agree to pay something - most of the increases are by force majure and not covered by clause 36. If any increase is for labor increases, then id say no, as this should be included in his price.

    However he should be entitled to additional management charges on the extra works or on any delays that were not his making



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    #8
    C. Eastwood
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭C. Eastwood


    BalboBiggins

    You are getting advice here which could lead to long drawn out legal proceedings and stress.

    Householders intending on getting any building works done should retain a Registered Building Surveyor or a Chartered Building Surveyor, who will produce Drawings and a Specification of Works of all of the renovations that you require, and certify the Works on completion.

    Renovating are notorious for extra works which are unforeseen. The Building Surveyor will include a guesstimated Provisional Sum for these works.

    The Building Surveyor will get quotes from a number of Building Contractors after they have inspected previous works by the builders, and recommended a builder to you. And form a Building Agreement between the builder and you

    I know many excellent Building Contractors, who I recommend to Client.

    Comments here are making disparaging remarks about a person who is a builder, and they know nothing about him.

    The law is - that if you ask a person to do work for you, - you must pay them.

    Therefore you need to pay the Builder. The question that you have asked above is - how much should you pay the builder? I will explain how you can decide on this sum.

    I assume that you are not a Construction Professional. And if that is correct, I cannot understand why anyone here would mention force majeure and Clauses of a Contract to you. It begs belief.

    Building Contracts differ from most other Contracts. Whilst the parties to the Contract rarely change (you and the builder), the Contract Period, the Contract Sum and the Contract Works always change.

    From the information you have given, it appears that you have a Contact in the form of a Written Agreement between you and the builder. The Architects Drawings and the Builders Estimate / Quotation in the form of the Spreadsheet forms part of this Contract, but many other items will not be Black or White and will need to be agreed.

    Do not part with the Builders estimate- give out photocopies only

    I assume that the Builders Estimate gives a breakdown of the agreed building works, and hopefully it gives Unit Rates. A Quantity Surveyor can use these rates quoted by the builder to ascertain what the builder ought to be paid for the extra works in accordance with the building agreement

    My advice to you is to retain a Registered Quantity Surveyor or a Chartered Quantity Surveyor in Private Practice to represent you in negotiations with the builder, and to agree a revised updated Contract Sum with the builder on your behalf.

    Quantity Surveyors are trained in Building and Contract Law and are also experts in Construction Costs and Bills of Quantities and at formulating Unit Rates and reasonable costs for completed works

    You can find a Quantity Surveyor near you by contacting the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland - https://scsi.ie/

    You stated that you gave the builder instructions to complete works that are costing approx €20,000.

    You also state that the builder is also looking for another €15,000 and you do not say what this is for.

    You also ask- do you have to accept the extra costs, - a Quantity Surveyor will answer that question for you.

    It is best to negotiate an agreement for the extra works, and to pay same to the builder.

    There are 3 main items in building contracts

    1. Time
    2. Costs
    3. Quality.

    You have not made any comments about the workmanship of the completed Construction Works and hopefully they are of a very good Quality.

    Kind Regards



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    #9
    briangriffin
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭briangriffin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118790219#Comment_118790219

    Sensible advice but may not be necessary.

    Without being disparaging to the builder the OP has ever right to ask for a breakdown of what the builder has charged an extra 15k for. If the original contract had a detailed breakdown and if materials and labour are accounted for and there have been increases beyond the 20k the OP has agreed and paid then he is entitled to know what his 15k is buying. It's a huge sum of money.

    Builders/tradesmen (not all but a surprisingly large number of them) Can often price a job and then start spotting problems after it's priced. The OP has already paid an extra 20k - do not be a soft touch I've seen unscrupulous people take advantage of home owners - you feel obliged to pay because you want the job done. I've learnt the lesson the hard way myself. You are entitled to a detailed breakdown of your 15k in terms of hours worked by a labour unit and actual identifiable material costs increase. Do not hand over 15k unless you get that and be suspicious till your builder has proven his case. I hope u have plenty left to pay him so that the job is complete.

    How big was your extension OP what percentage is the increase 20k plus 15k so 35k total that would be a huge increase for material and labour for a new build.



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