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Will we ever have good mental health services?

  • 02-02-2022 9:30am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,202 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    The recent revelations about the Kerry CAMHS situation were not at all surprising. Terrible for the families and young people who were harmed.

    Since before Covid there has been no national director for mental health in the HSE. Now, thanks to the current crisis, Minister Mary Butler seems to want to change that. It shouldn't take a broken system to point out the need for a leader in mental health in the HSE. Nothing about the HSE surprises me, they just make it up as they go along and can be very defensive too.

    We have a system where much is left up to the NGO/charity sector. Compared to other countries, we underspend on mental health. No government in my lifetime seems to get it and we've issues going back many years.




Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭cannonballTaffyOjones


    When I was 16 I went to the Matter dei (?) for "counselling" ... to say they were useless would be an understatement.

    One psychologist hugged her coffee cup and looked at me like I was some sort of lab rat as she asked me questions.

    Others would tell me to cop myself on and stop thinking and getting upset over such things .... this was in 1995 ... not that long ago in the big side of things...

    Made me way worse, when I was 17 my Mam paid for a private therapist for me to chat with, she was great, just listened, no judging, and would give great advice on how to navigate life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,583 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The state have treated children very badly for decades with very little accountability. 7 years on from the discovery of a mass grave of children in Tuam and they still haven't been given a proper burial. Not normal. We haven't even figured out where the 900 missing babies at Bessborough are. I cannot fathom how slow we are to change the national culture around the treatment of children.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Will we ever have good mental health services?

    Depends what constitutes good. I doubt we'll ever have enough resources to provide comprehensive/effective care. Even during Irelands boom times, the health service has declined in coverage and ability.. some improvements in particular areas, but when one area improves, two-three other areas decline.

    Most likely, we'll end up with private services being the best option for health, including that of mental health.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    I would be quite doubtful we will even have an adequate mental health service in the medium to long term, never-mind a good one.

    I have had close family try to avail of mental health services and it was very, very difficult.

    Its just not something that is even on the Governments radar as far as I can tell. Our health service pre-pandemic was under constant strain and while I would hope there has been some improvements made since then but Im not too confident. Mental health services would come a distant second behind our "main" health services so I doubt there is ever much left at the table for them when it comes to it.

    Let me state that the people working in the mental health services (from my experience) are for the most part doing their best under the conditions but there simply isn't enough highly trained specialists or services available in the country as small as it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,146 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I dare-say you could leave the word "mental" out of that question and the answer would still be the same...

    Looking at the VHI's investment in a network of new clinics, it looks more and more like we're going to follow the American model of excellent healthcare for the rich while letting the poor suffer and die imho.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Does VHI's "network of new clinics" provide any new mental health facilities?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭victor8600


    The recent revelations about the Kerry CAMHS situation were not at all surprising. Terrible for the families and young people who were harmed.

    I am actually amazed that so many children were actually prescribed medicines by someone in CAMHS. Thousands of children wait years for the initial assessment, that is before they can be put into another queue to possibly get prescribed drugs:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0730/1156380-thousands-of-children-waiting-for-autism-checks/

    https://asiam.ie/advice-guidance/diagnosis-clinical-supports/pursuing-a-diagnosis-for-your-child/

    https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/child-autism-assessment-covid-5180434-Aug2020/



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Tbh, I think the government would prefer to outsource this work to NGOs so they don't have to take the blame when it inevitably goes tits up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭anplaya27


    Not if you're a Deaf sign language user ( here its ISL, now recognised as a native official language of ireland).

    Due to a number of factors including marginalisation research shows Deaf sl users are 2/4 or 5/7 times more likely to have mental health issues and 2 - 4 times more likely to take their own lives than those who can hear ( depending on what research you look at). Yet services are non existent. They only had specialist services on a trial basis and they were even closed when covid first happened. About a year later they reopened once a week due to lobbying. They only have one psychiatrist and clinical nurse and they're only available if an ISL interpreter is available ( which theres a severe lack of ) as far as I'm aware. Pieta house dont even offer Deaf ISL users their services at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,800 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    There is a chronic shortage of psychologists for a start…health, social care and educational settings are all suffering..

    so if you don’t have enough professionals in the field you won’t provide a good enough service…



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Short answer: not any time soon


    Long answer: I frequent both the mental and physical health services. The very poor physical health service contributed to me going to the mental heath service, and the mental health service ended up being worse than the physical health service. So far I've heard gems such as: "I don't think your (top neuropsych diagnosed) PTSD diagnosis is correct. Those flashbacks don't sound convincing. Besides, you're only on x amount of antidepressants", "suicidal ideation doesn't count, you shouldn't even bring it up", and despite knowing that one of the reasons I was there was that medical gaslighting in the physical health system caused me to start to believe I was losing my mind, trying to convince me that my physical health problems were in my head, despite knowing absolutely nothing about the case. On top of 3 hour long appointments, most of which I spend sitting on a plastic chair in the hallway.

    This wasn't some run down, back alley, dodgy qualificatied shrink. This was has been in a purpose build, HSE ran mental health building. I have another appointment coming up, and I'm torn between knowing I need to get on top of my mental health and that I'm lucky (after a long wait) to have gotten anything at all, and telling them to go swivel on one. I can't afford anything else though, so it's the awful HSE service, or nothing. And I'm at a point where I can't afford nothing either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,015 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Well, this depends: are you willing to pay for it or do you think taxes are too damn high as it is?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Providing proper mental health service, especially for children, may actually save money. Here is a quote of the article I linked above:

    Dr Beug said: "The bitterest irony of all is that this neglect of children is going to end up costing the State multiples of what it would cost to implement a proper early intervention system because if your first five years of school are catastrophic, you will never come back."



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,015 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah, but you still have to pay up front.

    People don't think that far ahead. They just label the kids 'whinging snowflakes' and wonder why things like school shootings happen.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,202 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Stop. Early intervention and saving money is common sense which the HSE isn't capable of.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,202 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    11 CAMHS beds closing in Linn Dara. Our mental health system continues to be broken, a mess and a scandal. The HSE has never shown any interest in fixing systemic issues.




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,800 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It’s amazing in the current climate what they can borrow billions for but when it comes to looking after the health, wellbeing and lives of Irish citizens and their families… hmmmm… getting more psychology places.or even keeping beds we have and need ? . hmmm



  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    No, The Irish solution to this problem has always been Drink.



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