Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

Options
1111214161789

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Find out who the Lead Worker Representative for your Dept is, and ask them what way your Dept is leaning. Some depts are much more resistant to the idea of blended working than others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Word from my dept. today is one day a week from next week. Two days a week from end of feb.


    They have reiterated however that blended working will be adopted.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think that this was the plan for a staged return to work before Omicron hit us in a wave, so it should probably be viewed as a mere resumption of that approach.


    I think that various departments will adopt various approaches between then and the agreement/implementation of blended working, and while you will be able to read to an extent the attitude of each department's management board in the interim period, the policy will at that stage lead to a much more uniform approach.

    if not, the departments/units/teams (depending on where discretion sits in each dept) that restrict WFH are going to start bleeding staff very quickly indeed- with mobility now well established and certain skillsets in particular both in high demand and well suited to a wfh approach, managers will simply see this as a bargaining tool to snap up the people they want.

    long before the WRC hammers home the right to work from home on a reasonable basis (and if you haven't run into trouble in the past 2 years, that's a slam-dunk case) the departments that drag their feet on this will be feeling the pain- now i dont think like an ASEC thinks but for the life of me if that's not obvious to anyone they must have a serious set of blinkers on them

    I wonder how they will manage to screw this up all the same- can't believe that all departments will allow themselves to be held back by the few noteworthy foot-draggers (like happened when no consensus could be found last year on a policy)

    All of the above can be reasoned without reference to luddite public sector workers, management who hate their teams, lazy workers getting away with murder. it's very simple to pick a path through the actual issues that will come into play without sounding like a crank.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    might have been optimistic.....few depts seem to be pretending they've never heard of WFH in the plans sent out so far for return to work....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,509 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    Do you mean some Depts are expecting a full return to the office? From my understanding, it's phased return now while discussions are ongoing about blended options.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    phased yes but the (not explicit but phased until date X) implication seems murkily suggestive of "beyond date X what's the problem?"


    the unions would want to be doing more than sending out email updates on this one



  • Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭BOHSBOHS


    Some departments have already issued plans for 3 days a week in office by mid march with no mention of wfh options.. some have issued nothing



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,867 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You mean the unions who were asleep at the wheel agreeing to a 1% a year pay deal? Don't hold your breath for Forsa to do anything useful. We're looking at what is in effect a 10% pay cut after inflation between 2021 and 2023.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,668 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    3 days in the office - implicitly the other 2 days are wfh, surely?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Early days yet but It may be playing out as I feared. The more time passes from the lifting of restrictions, the higher the chance of token WFH being introduced to tick a box.

    And the civil service is, in general, more forward thinking and organised than the rest of the public service.

    I was just reading some stuff from a remote working advocate called Chris Herd. If he's even half right, private sector companies that refuse to embrace remote working (where possible and where their competitors have) will be in trouble, just like those who refused to embrace computers or ecommerce were.

    Re: computers and the internet, I worked in the public service in the mid 00s and the refusal to utilise technology was absurd at the time and seems even more so looking back. Staff not allowed to use the internet as "they'll just doss". Printing and filing multiple copies of emails. Memos and copies of memos for the most mundane things. Requiring 4 copies of job application forms and refusing to accept applications by email (was still happening in Feb 2020) A mountain of paper generated and very difficult to find anything in it as time passes.

    Officious nonsense which requires a certain official mindset which also requires....an office. An office full of filing cabinets with "typists" sitting at their desks i.e. a bureacratic dinosaur's wet dream.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭johntune


    What Departments are these if you don't mind sharing?

    Christ it's hard to believe they can be thinking about 3 days in the office if the job was done properly fully remotely before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Well, one factor is that the long term effects e.g. 10 years plus aren't really known yet - sort term, career development may not be affected, but long term, things like networking, skill development, informal learning, relationships etc. become a bigger factor



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭billyhead


    I think 3 days policy will be eventually across the civil service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I honestly think all of those can be mitigated against.

    Doing my job better from home for two years and I think a lot of my colleagues are the same tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭johntune


    Simple enough to deal with all that remotely to be fair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    My boss is actively pushing with management for us to stay at home



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭johntune


    How will they reconcile that with the law allowing each individual to request remote working? They can't put a blanket policy in place. It will be left to each individual business unit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭Sarn


    You can still request remote working. If they decide to grant it, it doesn’t have to be 100% WFH, granting one day from home could tick the box. If they can give some justification as to why a hybrid model is required I can’t see the WRC having an issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Absolute bull, you've stated that I "appear to be happy for others to be forced to do that", I never stated nor implied that at all. They are your words not mine. I believe fair play to anyone that has reasonable working hours. The benchmarking etc. that occurred in the early 2000's only went one way - up, this should of been fixed permanently not a sticking plaster that then gets "rectified". Additionally there are practices within the public sector to prevent private professionals moving into the sector - any person applying for a public sector job from the private sector can only start on the lowest increment for that level yet public sector employees can start on higher increment levels within that level.

    This is protectionism and will only ensure that the pool of employees in the public sector becomes stale. My own sibling who is a lecturer has said that he sees this already happening in our colleges.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Its not possible to have a one size fits all policy on "x" number of days across the whole civil service because not every department is the same, and the types of work they do are too diverse.

    Some are heavily customer facing, whereas others, have practically no customer facing roles. The same blanket policy cannot be applied to both, it just won't work that way.

    Whatever the final policy will be, it will be much broader than that.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @kennethsmyth

    Additionally there are practices within the public sector to prevent private professionals moving into the sector - any person applying for a public sector job from the private sector can only start on the lowest increment for that level yet public sector employees can start on higher increment levels within that level.

    All new entrants to the public service start on the first point of the scale for their grade.

    Public sector employees can start on a higher increment level as the points on their payscales can overlap, and someone on the top of the EO scale will be earning more than someone at the start of the HEO scale. Do you think an EO newly promoted to HEO, should take a pay cut and drop back to the first increment of the HEO scale ? Promotion usually means pay increase not decrease!

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭Shuffl_in


    I'm in the Civil Service a few years now and am surprised by how toothless/useless Fórsa are in every aspect.

    Given how important blended working/working from home is for the vast majority of their members they should be really pushing it as an option. But nobody expects anything of them. An absolute lame duck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    If that salary level is available to someone already in the public sector, then it should also be available to someone coming from the private sector. Why would someone from the private sector take a pay cut either. The current rule is clearly a disincentive to applicants from the private sector.



  • Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭gauchesnell


    agree fully but is also a disincentive to go to promotion for a lot of people as the previous poster said. Promotion doesnt mean salary increase even for existing staff



  • Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭gauchesnell


    we havent received any update from them or even from my own employer regarding what is happening. Im in education public sector - have forsa sent a communication to any sector?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    so much wrong here that if it were even an iota on-topic for the thread I'd happily chop it into the little thin pieces it deserves

    have you no "moan that the public sector have benefits" thread you'd rather bump- I assure you there are plenty



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    The last time public sector pay was benchmarked against private sector, there was uproar!

    A new entrant is not "taking a paycut". Its their choice if they wish to apply for a public service role or not, and it has always been the case that new entrants start on the first point of their scale.

    Existing public servants are not new entrants, they are already employees

    Why should a new entrant from the private sector be allowed to leapfrog in pay over someone who has worked their way up through the grades but have not reached the point on the scale that the new private sector entrant thinks they should enter on, because "that's what I was paid in the private sector".

    Anyway, this thread is about blended working not pay. If you want to discuss starting pay rates, maybe open another thread.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭exitstageleft


    I wonder if the CS will consider reworking their office layout now that they plan on integrating remote work with in-office.

    For one thing, it would be useful to keep all units in the same room, and divisions close by one another.

    It seems entirely pointless bringing teams in on the same day, only for everyone to be in different rooms and offices. It ends up with everyone communicating via email and instant messenger - exactly the same as at home!

    I imagine hot-desking might rise in prominence too. It's not fantastic but I'd be happy to take it if I can stay home 3 or 4 days a week. Also, with more staff at home, it might be nice not to sit in an empty room when you are in!



  • Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭gauchesnell


    we already communicate by email and chat when we are in the office - and have online meetings are out desks. We are in the weird in between phase I suppose but I work in a large open plan collaborative space with no offices.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Its called best person for the job and this is essentially protectionism by the civil service employees.



Advertisement