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A redundancy query

  • 27-01-2022 10:51pm
    #1
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    My company got bought out a few months ago and the new owners are, unpleasant. I had a lot of flexibility in my job, often working from home as I would spend huge amounts of time abroad organising conferences. Pay has gone up well over the years and have a history of bonuses and awards. The new owners are demanding we are in the office 9 to 5, regardless of whether we are needed or not, even if I get in from China or the US at 4 in the morning, I am expected in the office at 9 am, no exceptions. From my reading of legislation, there has been enough changes to my working conditions that I should be able to quit and request redundancy. At the minute their attitude to me feels like they just want me to quit, most of the senior people I worked with have already left. Any advice on what to write in my notice letter, I am leaving redundancy or not as they are unpleasant in the extreme. They are a big company so redundancy will be pennies to them and I have no appetite for a drawn out run with a solicitor (I have gotten advice and the solicitor said its an open and shut case but could take a bit of time going back and forth (Solicitor was paid for advice, a family solicitor and not getting free advice and bailing)). So its a, I'll ask for it in a letter but advice on the exact words would be appreciated. I just want out ASAP.



Comments

  • #2
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 15,908 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    you can claim redundancy if you can show you have been constructively dismissed:

    "There will also be a dismissal if you have ended your contract of employment because you were forced to leave your job due to your employer’s conduct. This is known as constructive dismissal."

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/redundancy.html

    "Constructive dismissal is where you are forced to leave your job because of your employer’s conduct."

    See here for examples and further guidance:

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/dismissal/constructive_dismissal.html#:~:text=Constructive%20dismissal%20is%20where%20you,be%20considered%20a%20constructive%20dismissal.

    prob the most relevant in your case seems to be:

    • Forcing you to accept unreasonable changes to your conditions of employment without your agreement (for example changing your shift pattern)

    To answer your question re any advise on the wording of the letter. No, you definitely need to get a solicitor versed in employment law to guide you through this, cos it can get very messy



  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    I can't advise on the redundancy claim, but there are rules set out in the Working Time Act around the minimum number of hours rest break you must have between work days (I think its 11 minimum in 24 hours) - if you're landing from China at 4am there is no way you should be expected to be in the office at 9am.

    It sounds like they are actively trying to manage you out.

    Go to a solicitor who specialises in employment law.



  • #4
    Bicyclette
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Bicyclette


    Do a google search for some of the Constructive Dismissal Cases. There are some online. Citizens Information also have good information. One of the items they list is:

    Forcing you to accept unreasonable changes to your conditions of employment without your agreement (for example changing your shift pattern)

    You can also contact Workplace Relations for a chat.



  • #5
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,121 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543060#Comment_118543060

    Yes 11 hours minimum between shifts unless there is mitigating circumstances where for operational reasons an employee was required for a specialist tasks. In this case if you landed at 4am allowing a reasonable time to get out of the airport and get on the roadhome(presuming you lived within 50-70 minutes of the airport) at best 4-5pm the next day is soonest you should be legally required to be in. In most situations an employer would not require the attendance of an employee the following day.

    This definately looks like a constructive dismissel senario.

    Just as an aside if you are in a situation like this, unless there was critical operational reasons that you had to attend or could not deal with over email/phone, I would stroll in between 4-4.30pm. If there was a barney there was a barney. I am semi retired now but the only way to deal with thick/unreasonable people/bosses is be as unreasonable and as thick as them.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #6
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,655 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    If you want out and fast then constructive dismissal won't work: you need to show you have attempted to use the grievance procedures to resolve the issue.

    What you need to ask for is not redundancy (which doesn't apply), but a settlement in order for you to leave quietly and not take a constructive dismissal case.

    You need solicitor, not boardsie, advice on wording this. Make sure that as well as cash, the agreement includes a good reference from them.



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  • #7
    SteelyDanJalapeno
    Registered Users Posts: 14,234 ✭✭✭✭SteelyDanJalapeno


    If you want out, just talk to your manager/Director and let them know you'd be interested in redundancy if the opportunity arose.

    I wouldnt be walking away depending on time served so far.

    But yeah, you're entitled to the day off if traveling the night before, or the Monday off if travelling the weekend.



  • #8
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Thanks for all the advice, handing in the letter anyway. Just wondering if anyone had advice on wording. I think based on the above, I'll talk to HR and say my peace, it is effectively constructive dismissal and I am happy to accept pay equivalent to statutory redundancy. It would be a nice bridge between jobs and they can afford it but on the same note, I'm not staying regardless and I'm not hanging around for months of faffing about. If they say no, I won't be hanging about anyway.



  • #9
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Well after several years, numerous promotions, bonuses, personal notes of thanks from the Managing director, all I got in response to my very polite resignation letter was "We acknowledge receipt of your resignation". Glad to be rid of them. Solicitor says there is more than enough to rattle their cage and he is happy to go at them. I'm in two minds, mainly because I just don't want the faff and its a small industry. I know several others who had their solicitors there on day one of the handover, so I don't think it would be held against me. Probably think me more foolish if I didn't get one but I just don't want the faff. Maybe if there next email is so blunt I might change my mind and let the solicitor go at them.


    Thanks again for all the help.



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