Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

That's why they enforced the covid cert in august when we had a bunch of people in hospitals and there wasn't certainly any new variant. If that's not a punishment or let's call it a reward for being vaccinated if you prefer, then what it is?

Were they following the science also when they established the 9€ meal, or the 2km restrictions, or the fact that you could buy oranges but not shoes in the same store?

Victim complex? They destroyed thousand jobs, they obliterated the economy, they indirectly caused the death of god only knows how many patients that didn't get checked and diagnosed in time, they brought many people to take their own life, they created a 2 tier society and implanted the fear of living in the majority.. but of course it's nothing major, it's just a victim complex.

@seamus 'Anti-vaxers naturally have a victim complex, so they'd like to think that the purpose of the certs along was punishment.'

The unwise comments by Emmanuel Macron help create the impression that the certs are punitive. He was given a chance to walk back his comments and instead reiterated them.

Who says everyone wore a cheap "cloth mask" or used them incorrectly. That's just bs. Plenty of people wore medical type masks or multiple layer masks that used filters and used them properly.

Just because some people may ignore common sense - it doesn't follow we have to accommodate them by getting rid of public safety protocols.

I didnt bring up the bit about things which were legally required. And yes the other example of that is a seat belt. There's even the odd gobdaw who don't believe in using them either. Not that's something surprising, going by the type of ridiculous arguments being pounded by the outraged here against the use of masks .

What exactly has had "virtually zero effect on case numbers"?

The only way the seat belt analogy would work would be if a large proportion of seat belts in use were made from elastic! They look the part until you need them to work.

The "pandemic" or "crisis" is over - it's now an endemic case of the sniffles with Omicron and little to no risk to almost everyone (again yes there will be some who are vulnerable and they should continue to be careful as I said previously)

Washing your hands and good hygiene in general is something we should do regardless. If Covid has reinforced that then it's been a positive in that way at least. Masks however (as in the cheap cloth majority being used, not medical/surgical grade) are of little benefit as we've seen by dramatically rising cases regardless. The only thing they act as is a visible reminder of Covid and placebo for some, inconvenience for most.

As for your last part. I'm triple vaccinated and wear masks if I have to. It might be nice to simple pigeon-hole people whose opinions disagree with yours with convenient (and meaningless) "labels", but this isn't Twitter!

But again, mask up if you feel better/safer or see it as "protecting others". No-one has an issue with that! It would be great though if the same freedom of choice and opinion applied in reverse though!

Last time you went on your "collateral damage is a conspiracy theory" tangent, I provided you with a big post of multiple different ways that the restrictions have caused or are projected to cause huge damage, including the 2020 starvation deaths of over a quarter of a million children in the global South, and you hand-waved it all away.

Anyone who responds to you seriously on this subject is foolish.

What we know about masks is that some studies find no effect at all from cloth/surgical masks, some studies find a small effect in reducing transmission, and the best mask to wear is an FFP2/N95 without a valve.

What we know about SARS2 is that it's not going to be eradicated, since immunity is not neutralising (and is never likely to be) and there are multiple animal reservoirs.

We therefore know that we are not stopping or reducing transmission so much as delaying it.

And the question then becomes whether wearing FFP2/N95-type masks into all congregative areas, having just watched healthcare workers who wear them post their "battle scars" from doing so on Social Media for two years and understanding how much of human social interaction is conducted non-verbally through facial expression, is an acceptable legal requirement on all citizens for the sake of delaying infection in some people for some period of time.

I think you would have to be outlandishly, irrationally fearful of Covid-19 to think that it was.

I also think you'd have to be a bit of a douche to get on someone's case because they are outlandishly, irrationally fearful of Covid-19, because I don't think ridiculing or getting angry at people experiencing fear or anxiety is reasonable or productive (this is also a reason why getting angry at vaccine hesitant people is counterproductive, self-indulgent nonsense). But mileage will vary on that, too.

A lot of people think that it was harder and harder for the unvaxed not to fold. I actually think that the opposite is true. The more and more the measures turned coercive rather than science based the easier it was for them to justify their choice of not participating in this big experiment that the mRNA vaccines have been. As I said the fundamentals of covid affecting a tiny portion of population were very solid from the beginning and seeing measures implemented that were unproportional to the risk and not driven by science has made it very easy for them to stick with their original beliefs. If something doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t. If there is no evidence that it is right, most likely isn’t. There is hardly ever the comfort of certainty as risk plays it part in situations like this. It is all about managing the risk and we will see in years to come what the true long term impact of vaccines there has been.

National Public Health Emergency Team is its title. There is no longer an emergency. They can be formed and dissolved by the MoH. Once masks go and associated rules go so do they as they have no rationale to exist anymore. Expert group will be interesting, more so in terms of how we can do things better the next time. At the end of the day all they can do is recommend and the report could be just shelved.

All the talking about winning etc because of taking a vaccine/ not taking a vaccine is embarrassing. It's not a competition, it's a virus there are no winners or losers. People taking moral high ground from any side of this is a bit childish tbh. People did what was right for them, bit weird gloating about it. It was like a lot of the early narrative around the virus was akin to fighting a war. Some kept the narrative going throughout. Maybe it was to contexualise it or feel important or that they were doing something to beat it perhaps. It was and is a virus, not a war and there is no winners and losers!

Some people will no doubt "do what they seem fit" even when there is just 4 weeks to run under current guidance. But imho the same people are mainly the same who have screamed blue murder when any public health guidance whatsoever has been given during the pandemic.

Yes I'm fairly sure you don't "get" it. But if you don't mind, I reckon most people, myself included will continue to take public health advice from professionals who do! Thanks all the same.

Not at all. It's a discussion.

And btw it was yourself who claimed you did not "get" it

Not "my view of face masks" either, rather adherence to public health advice which is under discussion.

Maybe check your previous comment re "judging" others.

At 95%+ vax rate, it's not about waiting for them to fold, no one cares, it was about managing the hospitals and cases until we could manage reopening and then dropping all restrictions. The fact that some of the unvaxxed idiots think they were fighting some system is pretty hilarious as it means they believe a conspiracy theory but are too chicken to say it out loud, the world is moving on without them (though they will have to keep paying for tests when traveling while the vaxxed won't, so they get to be reminded of their idiocy until travel passes for COVID are dropped, if ever).

The vaccines are safe, they reduce infection and transmission rates, almost eliminate deaths and reduce severity of symptoms for those who do get infected, they've let us get through the pandemic in record time (and have been highly effective against variants which was a big unknown) and the technology used to create them will help us through future viral pandemics. Billions of people have taken them. They're also cheap as chips (not 5G chips!) compared to other medical treatments.

But it is interesting watching the revisionism at play as they have one last bout with an enemy that never existed :)