United Ireland Poll - please vote

@ittakestwo

"Speaking of islands. The majority people of Ireland want a UI. The majority of people on the Island of Britain want or don't care if there is a UI. It is the natural progression that there will be a UI. The gerrymandering of the Irish nation into two jurisdictions is going against what the majority of people of these islands want so it is more a question of when rather than if.

I also think when we talk about a UI we look to much to the politics of Ireland and not what is going on across the water on Britain.

Scotland leaving the UK would probably see the end of the union. Where would this leave the North? Obviously back to a UI."

I think you shall find , after 200 plus pages that most of the talk is based on , primarily simplistic and inaccurate waffling about historical events (people can not even get the bloody basics right - and yes, it matters! ) before 1916 and events between 1916-early 2000s (covering the Troubles) It is no different with most threads regarding this title on any forum .

We are as bad as the public and TDs of 1921-1922 who focused on lesser important matters contained in the Treaty (Oath to the Crown, which turned out to be not as bad in the wording)

We'd do well, in the South, to go up to the North and properly understand the issues up there. It is well accepted that England doesn't really care about the North; but England , Scotland and Wales are stuck with the North so long as Unionists remain a majority in the North - however slight that majority is.

Gerrymander? (It happened, yes, but your claims are total bullshit when looking at today)

In the 1918 Elections, in the 9 counties of Ulster, Unionists won 23 out of the 38 seats with Sinn Féin gaining ten and the Irish Parliamentary Party five. Bear in Mind Shinners needed at least 3 individuals to run and win seats despite holding seats in the South . The Entire County of Derry , bar the city, returned Unionists. The Countiesof Tyrone and Fermanagh and Armagh were split into two parts, with a Unionist being returned in Tyrone and Fermanagh and Armagh along with Nationalists and SF . The most popopulous areas of the 6 counties, outside Derry City , were more by Unionists, easily. IPP were the only ones to win a seat in the small enclave in Belfast

Note so long ago, in 2015, a Unionist won the Westminster seat for Fermanagh - South Tyrone (and lost it to SF 2 years later)

In recent times, Places like Newry & Armagh (Deep South Armagh Ra boys) and Fermanagh/ South Tryone can still return DUP (Sharelene Foster) AND Ulster Unionist party (Elliott / Mcginnis) lads to the Assembly . Unionists like Foster have even topped the polls! West Tyrone (Omagh and Stabane areas) have seen DUP guys top the polls with ease despite being Nationalist / Catholic areas

So even in staunch Republican and Nationalist areas, Unionists still have a strong presence . Until the last Westminster election (John Finuance outstanding win in North Belfast ) same couldn't have been said for modern SF and SDLP lads in Unionists heartlands

By the way, the MAJORITY of the people in Northern Ireland voted to STAY IN THE NI during a referendum in the mid 1970s .

The current polls also CLEARLY show that Southerners are in no rush to realise a United Ireland !

The Scots are too cowardly to leave the UK and what NI Unionists do will not be influenced by what the Scots did

@Brucie Bonus

"You are using the Queen, and British as a standard? Raise the bar.

You are using a criteria set by others to decide what is and isn't a country. The days of empires plundering regions they feel are up for grabs are over. The world grew a conscience, for the most part.

It's an island. It's always been a land unto itself. We don't need some arsehole to vet our existence. What the hell is Ulster? Do you recognise Ulster? I don't hear any other British apologists claiming Ulster was never really a province anyway. Can you find the paperwork for Ulster? When was it invented? You are trying pedantry with biased political terminology. Cop on."

1. "It's an island. It's always been a land unto itself."

Has it? Funny, the British, and specifically the English have had control of the place since the days of Strongbow and really made sure that they were the Daddy since Cromwell, despite the odd period of Ireland having a talking shop . Moreover, at NO TIME was the area known as the 6 counties remotely at one with the rest of the island in terms of politics, business, trade, industry, and culture.

" 2 . The days of empires plundering regions they feel are up for grabs are over. The world grew a conscience, for the most part."

AND .............stood idly by and did nothing . Actually they joined in . America plundering the Middle East and South America ; Russia acting the bollox around ex Soviet States like Georgia and Ukraine; Europe literally doing **** all in Yugoslavia in the 1990s. Wise up !

3 "We don't need some arsehole to vet our existence"

When Ireland looked to Independence and Recognition, Irish TD's went to great lengths to seek International recognition by going to the Paris Peace Conference and touring America. During the Troubles, Irish diplomats camped outside the UN HQ and European Courts of Human Rights in order to get the world to see for itself what was going on in the North .

We very much need the world to recognise Ireland's rights to the North . While there was precedent from previous Anglo Irish Treaties and Agreements and the good work of John Major, I doubt GFA would have been the success that it was without the help from the US and from the EU

4 "You are using the Queen, and British as a standard? Raise the bar" .

The Standard Criteria as to what is or is not a country was used. Try Bunreacht na hÉireann for the source ffs.

You stupidly implied that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, political parties that have enjoyed great success at elections, as THE STATE. You then started blabbing on about what differences there were because said parties have enjoyed public support for so long and some horse manure about the Gardaí turning a blind eye to mass graves (They can not do a lot when the public won't come to them about it ) .

5 What the hell is Ulster?

Give that question a little bit of thought, surely even you are capable of that?

It is the name of a historical province in northern territory of the island of Ireland. Known , in the Irish language as  Ulaidh, which itself was once a confederation of dynastic groups in Antrim and Down, on the east coast (Northern Uí Neill ruled area known as Derry , Tyrone , Fermanagh)

It is a 9 county province, with the majority (62%) of the population based in the Six counties that are now in Northern Ireland. So while it seems inaccurate to refer NI as Ulster, technically, Ulster or Ulaidh was ALWAYS within the 6 counties as they used the term first.

6 . I don't hear any other British apologists claiming Ulster was never really a province anyway.

No body has ever made such a claim or implied it. Your comprehension issues are getting rather tiresome .

7 Can you find the paperwork for Ulster? When was it invented? You are trying pedantry with biased political terminology. Cop on." 

Did you actually ever go to school? I am certain that your knowledge of the history of Ireland is weak. I wonder do you even understand what you are saying ?

Didn't look chief. You'd rather be childish than answer my questions about Ulster.

First off, we all attended history class when we were 11 and 12.

Secondly, you say they 'controlled'. Controlled what?

Where did the Norman's invade?

Its a silly debate. End of the day a section of Ulster is occupied.

And it was always Britain? You can't claim one thing and then switch my friend. The Scots won't be happy. lmao and so on.

@Brucie Bonus

"First off, we all attended history class when we were 11 and 12.

Secondly, you say they 'controlled'. Controlled what?

Where did the Norman's invade?

Its a silly debate. End of the day a section of Ulster is occupied."

Being present inside the classroom while history lessons were dished out , just to stay out of the cold, is not the same as attending said classes. ! You evidentially were part of that mob, based on the substantiated and undefendable rubbish that you spouted.

Secondly, 11 -12 is sixth class Primary School. Unless you had a brilliant Primary School teacher, history lessons were simplistic and barely touch on these complex issues, least not the school texts !

Re Control - I said

", the British, and specifically the English have had control of the place since the days of Strongbow and really made sure that they were the Daddy since Cromwell,"

Lands and ownership of same ; the laws - creation of the feudal system and the creation of the Common law system and later the Courts of Equity ; taxes, trade, ability to physically ship goods in and out of the land

Started in towns like Dublin , Waterford and then moved in land and established new towns (eg Roscommon Town , Sligo ,Galway,Carrickfergus ) in the midlands and West and alter Ulster , or expanded already existing towns (Athlone & Rindoon) with town walls and forts and castles etc.

"Where did the Norman's invade?

Go back to school!

"Its a silly debate. End of the day a section of Ulster is occupied." "

No, there is nothing silly about a debate on a United Ireland. People like YOU make it silly and hijack it with totally retardation and complete disinterest in learning basic facts that you sorely miss. That or you like trolling and have no desire to discuss this

You throw out a bomb of nonsense, then run away , refusing to address the successful counter claim

Ulster was always "occupied", the majority of the people in the majority of the counties in Ulster , still prefer to remain British. Let us focus on that and whether this can change

200 odd pages, about 5 have seriously addressed the island , today and tomorrow. Instead, preferring to have ignorant people expose their ignorance on the history of the island

First, GFA is key because it was the First time that the Irish State, acknowledged its stake in NI and changed the Constitution accordingly. However, the Constitutional interpretation of old Article 2 and 3 can be found in the Supreme Court case of McGimpsey - where it was said that both articles were not a claim of ownership, but aspirational.

Sunningdale - It brought power share . It followed previous Act of Government Act 1920 with the COuncil of Ireland (Unionists say that as a step to UI) (GFA had that too) Much of Sunningdale is contained in GFA - Hence, Sunningdale for the low learners

Anglo Irish Agreement 1985 - Gave Ireland some powers to be consulted and confirmed that there would be no change in the constitutional position of Northern Ireland unless a majority of its people agreed to join the Republic. It also set out conditions for the establishment of a devolved consensus government in the region.

Downing Street Declaration 1993 - This declaration affirmed both the right of the people of Ireland to self-determination, and that Northern Ireland would be transferred to the Republic of Ireland from the United Kingdom only if a majority of its population was in favour of such a move

Allow agreed that UI could only come about by peaceful means.

Yes. Before the GFA we'd a claim, but now we've an agreed by both sides path.

Very calm and civil.

Very calm and very civil. Generous and patient. Far more than your are worthy of or deserve.