Cork developments

Scooby Reggie do · 11-01-2022 9:35pm

Great to see the prism starting.

Apogee · 13-01-2022 12:42am

Tomorrow's Examiner front page:

snotboogie · 13-01-2022 12:55am

Would be fantastic, should do one in the city in the river and another in Tramore Valley Park.

iColdFusion · 13-01-2022 10:36am

They are starting the MacCurtain St works also but along with the above boils my blood they will piss away all this money on public realm improvements when what people actually want are more Gardai on street patrol and if they could get rid of the hobos, junkies, beggers and general sh!itheads loitering around the city would be a far bigger upgrade than some new footpaths!

Even a couple lads with a power washer working their way around the city doing footpaths etc would be great!

https://www.corkcity.ie/corkcityco/en/council-services/news-room/latest-news/maccurtain-street-public-transport-improvement-scheme-works-begin.html

notAMember · 13-01-2022 1:24pm

I don't think it's one vs the other. Gardai and patrols aren't in the remit of the council as far as I know. Isn't that controlled nationally?

Councils have responsibility for public realm improvements. If you think about it, the income created in Cork (I'm thinking of the massive multinationals like Apple and the pharmas) are actually being siphoned off to fund the whole country, including gardai I assume. Cork city council has a tiny budget compared to Dublin, but I'm happy enough for it to go on maintaining and improving our civic environment.

The city is flooded with private cafes, pubs and restaurants, which is great for social outlets and I enjoy them all. All the council needs to do for them is grant planning permission an pull in rates. Maybe provide parking / access. It would be nice to also have public facilities available to us that have other more healthy outcomes than increasing eating and drinking. Facilities that cities typically have, walking and cycling infrastructure, parks, playgrounds and yes, swimming pools.

iColdFusion · 13-01-2022 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466978#Comment_118466978

You are right it shouldn't be one or the other considering anglesea street is right there in the center but im sure the council can put pressure on Na Gardai and other services to permanently resolve the issues I mentioned because they are completely failing to do it at present, it all just strikes me as painting over the cracks with some new public realm and completely ignoring the day to day underlying issues the city has, giving hobos some new steps to sit on, new footpath to piss on and new planters to throw their cans in isn't a solution!

notAMember · 13-01-2022 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467194#Comment_118467194

That's really a societal problem, and I see it the other way around. Cleaning up papers over the cracks. Long term view is structural and changing lifestyle.

Why are those people there in the first place... A simple example, maybe they loved to swim when they were small, there is no accessible fun public swimming pool to visit with their friends, so instead they all fell into street boozing as that's all that was available.

Power-hosing hobos off the street might help short term , but doesn't solve the underlying problem. Becoming a healthy city can help improve those problems in the longer term.

iColdFusion · 13-01-2022 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467689#Comment_118467689

There is housing for them if they were suitable for it so all I can guess is that they have mental illnesses manifesting with drink, drugs, crime and homelessness, they shouldn't be wandering the streets of a main city and im saying that as an Irish man who can shrug most of this off, I wouldn't want to be a young foreign female student or similar having to put up with their harassment.

At least the council have been upgrading the lighting around the city to make some areas less dangerous but the sad reality is the underlying issues wont get solved until someone is murdered like what just happened in Tullamore.

Apogee · 13-01-2022 6:35pm

ABP looking for changes on Tedcastles and CMP sites

Irish Examiner Two unrelated apartment plans in Cork city have been hit by setbacks. Both schemes were the subject of consultation with An Bord Pleanála, which is a standard aspect of the strategic housing development (SHD) scheme. In both cases, the board has advised the developer that the project “requires further consideration/ amendment”.

The decisions are non-binding.

The first was issued to Watfore Ltd, which was consulting about the development of 706 apartments on the former CMP Dairy Site and Creamfields on Tramore Road and Kinsale, Co Cork. The second was issued to Tiznow Property Company Limited, which was consulting about the development of 1,030 apartments at the former Tedcastles site on Centre Park Road in Cork.

CorkRed93 · 13-01-2022 6:41pm

does anyone know if its possible to view SHD applications that have gone to ABP? Im trying to find details on this application https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/312235

who_me · 13-01-2022 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469173#Comment_118469173

The wording of that sounds a bit overdramatic. These are two of the biggest developments in the city, it'd be far more surprising if they sailed through without comment.

I'm fascinated by the CMP proposal in particular. For reference, the Elysian has 211 apartments, and that's a huge 8 and 17 floor building that spans an entire block. The CMP proposal is over three times the size; so that's about 235 apartments per hectare - assuming it's the entire existing site. I wonder how high they'll need to go.

Markcheese · 13-01-2022 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469398#Comment_118469398

I suppose there's no residential neighbours to directly piss off , , big warehouse and distribution centre on 2 sides , stadium across the road ,retail park across other side - higher buildings set a precedent for future site values for any commercial property there ..

Apogee · 13-01-2022 10:54pm

I think this may be the CMP/Watfore (Dairygold subsidiary) aka Creamfields development?

Source: https://consult.corkcity.ie/ga/system/files/materials/5184/6042/Submission%20to%20inform%20the%20draft%20Plan%20Creamfields%2004102021.pdf

marno21 · 13-01-2022 11:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118470780#Comment_118470780

Sure is. Very impressive density for a large suburban infill site.

who_me · 14-01-2022 1:31am

Rough outline floating around of the Tedcastle site proposals too - 10 buildings of 10+ floors, and 3 towers 20 or taller (20, 25 and 33).

CorkRed93 · 18-01-2022 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118471686#Comment_118471686

any plans or artists impressions doing the rounds?

who_me · 18-01-2022 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118493722#Comment_118493722

Not that I know of. There was a mock-up a few months back alright, but it could have been very speculative. There's a more recent screengrab on this thread which just gives a very rough idea of the relative block heights and the scale of the development but says nothing about the building design or materials.

blindsider · 18-01-2022 11:47pm

Wow! 15 storey blocks - 8 -9 of them...?

3 major issues for me:

That road gets gridlocked by McDonald's Drive-thru (in spite of planning conditions etc), Smiths, Woodies and general traffic anyway...several times a day! Lots of HGV traffic from Musgraves and in/out of the units in the retail park - adding that no. of apartments will only generate more traffic, even if they provide minimal car parking.

They seem to imply that they will be able to get parking access in Black Ash...doens't matter if it's under capacity (COVID?) it's a Park/Ride facility, not a private car park.

They mention Tramore Valley Park as being in proximity - but fail to mention that it's vehicular acces only to TVP - esp, from that side. That's really misleading IMO!!

snotboogie · 19-01-2022 12:24am

They’d have to add pedestrian access to TVP from that side if it was built. I’m pretty sure it’s in the plan for TVP and there may actually be a tunnel in place already?

Timing belt · 19-01-2022 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497541#Comment_118497541

once the new bridge that will connect grange to the park is built they will have access via that

blindsider · 19-01-2022 2:33am

So residents in the new development will follow the (non-existent) yellow route to access the park, to the bridge in blue? Really?

Excuse the crude drawing - I didn't do art in school...but you get the idea...!

The bridge location may not be 100% accurate - it's a guide only.

fonecrusher1 · 19-01-2022 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454184#Comment_118454184

Anyone know the ETA on completion of this?

blindsider · 19-01-2022 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497681#Comment_118497681

There is, Snotboogie - good memory! https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30868835.html

"The full opening of a massive public park on the site of Cork’s former city dump is at least a year down the line, following confirmation it could cost at least €6m to provide “full and safe access” to the site."

AND

"However, health and safety concerns about access have presented large-scale events from taking place. Various options have been considered, including the construction of an overpass and the widening an existing underground tunnel which links the Black Ash park-and-ride facility to the park."

I wonder how much it would cost (and how long it would take) to widen the tunnel?

And that's getting a bit away from the idea of 700 apartments on a narrow, gridlocked road.

What are the chances they'll just flip the site if they do get PP anywaqy?

who_me · 19-01-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499020#Comment_118499020

Not sure. I think originally it was planned to start in Feb. 2020 and construction (but not outfitting etc.) be complete by the end of 2021. So the total period of around 22 months, Oct/Nov next year?

They do seem to be doing hell for leather at the moment, so perhaps with the late start they're accelerating the construction. There's work going on almost 24 hours a day at the moment.

Apogee · 19-01-2022 3:14pm

Echo reporting build-to-rent 114 apartment development in Blackpool given OK by ABP:

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40788351.html

[Deleted User] · 19-01-2022 3:33pm

Wonder if Woodie's will be allowed to continually block that road, with their deliveries, afterwards?

snotboogie · 19-01-2022 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499515#Comment_118499515

You’d imagine it wouldn’t be that difficult, I’d say the big concern would be policing anti social activity in a tunnel. It needs to be done with or without the apartments in my opinion.

I would say the chance of a land flip are very high.

who_me · 20-01-2022 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500511#Comment_118500511

The average home price in the South of the city is about 340K. If these apartments are about that price, the overall revenue from the site would be >240 million. So yeah, I'd guess if this were to be approved it'd massively inflate the site value.

Markcheese · 20-01-2022 2:17pm

Are there any large apartment developments ( other than student ones ) underway in the city ? If it's not economic to build apartments then it's just gonna be flipped -

snotboogie · 20-01-2022 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505565#Comment_118505565

Ya there are actually a good few underway at the moment, the big two are Lancaster Quay with 88 apartments and Thomas David Street with 112 apartments. Lots of smaller schemes underway around the city too; Wallace Court, Nancy Spain, Boherboy, Glenaar Bar, Sunview, Evergreen St and Denroches Cross. Then there is St Kevins which is not under construction but has site works ongoing, that’s a monster development in Cork terms with over 200 apartments. So even if you exclude St Kevins, there are about 350 apartments under construction in the city now. Every one of those projects is at least partially publicly funded though, there are no private developments under construction. Also this really only started in the second half of last year, apartment completions from Q1 2019 though to Q3 2021 are less than 300 total.

Ultimately there needs to be a public private partnership for the vast majority of these proposals, with a few notable exceptions like Horgan Quay, which may be able to pull in financing from international funds for BTR.

Cork developments

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