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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,753 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Did they send this poor Guard into (which ones?) briars to see what scratches he might get?

    Isn't that the Garda case?

    Why didn't they test that out...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    They didn`t have to. You can actually see the nature of the briar scratches on the post mortem photos, particularly those on Sophie`s arm around the elbow area. They are quite light and very similar to the drawings of Bailey`s hands. The kind of scratches that would be healed in a few days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Ok, if you want to be pedantic it's the only turn off in a 1.4km stretch of road, not 1.5km as I stated earlier.

    I had avoided giving directions to respect people's privacy, but since the location has been shown clearly on a map / aerial photo I suppose discretion is a bit pointless now.

    Ballyrisode bridge / Kealfadda bridge, I'm not going to lose any sleep over which someone calls it - it has been variously called both in this and other threads and in the media.

    Take the main road from Schull to Goleen. After approx. 6 miles, turn right at Ballyrisode / Kealfadda bridge. Turn left after approx. 1 mile. House is approx. ¾ mile, 1st on the left at the end of the cul de sac.

    That is simple enough for anyone to find on the OS map for the area, or follow without the help of a map. If you're worried about finding it at night, drive it during the day (just as far as identifying the turn off to the cul de sac).

    Anyone who has the intelligence to drive has the intelligence to follow directions which basically amount to 'turn right, then turn left'.

    The house is very easily located. Anyone who assumes otherwise is making a fundamentally flawed assumption. I hope such an assumption did not play a part in the investigation.

    I'm open as to whether the murderer was someone local or non-local or even possibly a random transient and whether they acted alone or with the help or under direction of an other or others. The problem I have is the lack of solid evidence to reasonably prove one above another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,753 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Of course they have to for this charade to have any kind of bearing. Where are the scratches on the Guard from the briars?

    Why didn't they?

    Or did they and kept schtum when the results didn't match their narrative?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭Summitatem


    The scratch that Jules only noticed after the murder over the morning coffee that Ian told her he got from a stick.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,979 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Do you honestly take the drawings of Baileys hands as serious evidence - REALLY - I think you need to look at them again. The drawing was laughable - I was actually embarrassed for the Gardai when I seen it on TV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    There are no problems with the above if it is done properly. I listened to the West Cork Podcast again while were all locked out and according to them there was a re-enactment of the Xmas tree episode and there were no scratches. For me it doesn`t matter whether he cut down the tree or not. I don`t see those scratches caused by it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,979 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I dont think you are getting the point I am making - the circumstances of the re-enactment have to be the exact same conditions as when Bailey climbed the tree for this to be taken as fact. My guess is that everything about the re-enactment was different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Why would you be doing a re-enactment when the actual briar scratches are evident on the victim? In this case you just compare the briar scratches on the victim to those on the suspect. The Christmas tree is pretty straightforward really. You go look at the tree he climbed and you re-enact with a similar one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Don`t you see that you have already lost on this point if you have to explain to this degree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,753 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You would be doing a re-enactment of the same set of steps to verify they in fact came from briars.

    Otherwise it was a charade to fool the gullible.

    So where are the pictures of the briar cuts on the Guard?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    Are you suggesting that he flailed the saw around cutting himself with it? There is nothing inherent to the kind of tree he climbed and cut that would cause scratches that would be highly visible days later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Are you aware of a briar re-enactment? I`m not. Nor do I see the need for one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,979 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Because the Gardai who investigated this case are not the most em trustworthy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    Wait, did the guy eat the same breakfast as Bailey? Clearly this experiment was biased!

    What changes about the tree or the operation of cutting it in the scenarios that you describe? I found the tree was much more abrasive and prickly when it was dead. You would think that after wrestling it off the base I would have at least some visible marks or a rash from the prickly nature of the tree. The idea that these scratches came from cutting down a tree is ridiculous at any time of year, no matter the height of the person or their clothing. The question is how did he get such noticeable scratches on the back of his hands and forearms. There is no evidence yet produced to corroborate the claim that climbing or cutting down one of these trees causes visible scratches. Not one single iota.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Ah right....so we return to the conspiracy theory territory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,979 ✭✭✭Deeec


    No not suggesting that at all. Just that cutting a christmas tree is completely different to buying a christmas tree - you are less likely to get scratches buying a wrapped christmas tree than cutting one yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Regarding the scratching, it's not inevitable but it's not unavoidable either

    I've lopped some height off fir trees and got quite scratched BUT there were briars growing through the trees and the sides had been cut back previously so there were also rough branch ends to deal with

    If a tree has no briars growing through it AND only soft new growth to brush against then there's far less chance of getting scratched

    As difficult as it may be for some to grapple with two possibilities, they both exist and they are equally plausible



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,979 ✭✭✭Deeec


    You dont seem to be aware how Bailey got the tree - He cut the top off a large tree in Jules garden- I dont know the type of tree - It may not even be the same type of tree we use as christmas trees. You simply cannot compare your lovely clean christmas tree to cutting a random tree yourself.

    Surely you see that the type of tree, clothing worn, seasonal differences to the tree is relevant to the result of the re-enactment.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    FFS. Four simple sentences.

    Take the main road from Schull to Goleen. After approx. 6 miles, turn right at Ballyrisode / Kealfadda bridge. Turn left after approx. 1 mile. House is approx. ¾ mile, 1st on the left at the end of the cul de sac.

    Ignore the rest, it is just putting the above in context and explaining the implications.

    If someone can't follow the above directions they're too stupid to drive!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    You see if I followed those instructions I would have come to a dead end with a house visible on the right and not the left. So I would have turned around and went back out the lane thinking I was in the wrong place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    The tree wasn't in Jules' garden, since he was seen dragging it down the road. Though it may have been behind the studio. There's a photo shown in one of the documentaries of a tree with the top cut off, presumably from the garda files. I'm almost certain he told the gardai it was a sitka spruce tree so they knew the type of tree and where it had been growing. The relevant clothing is a lack of gloves and a short sleeved shirt or sleeves rolled up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    I wasn't talking about buying a christmas tree, I was talking about wrestling two of them into and out of two houses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    You wouldn't have noticed the driveway to the first house on the left or the large white gable wall about 20 metres away. 🙄

    I guess some people just don't want to acknowledge anything that does not fit in with their own narrative.

    If that is any indication of the investigating Gardaí's train of thought I would have no confidence in any of their conclusions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I had avoided giving directions to respect people's privacy, but since the location has been shown clearly on a map / aerial photo I suppose discretion is a bit pointless now.
    

    The house was pinpointed on the map months ago.

    .... House is approx. ¾ mile, 1st on the left at the end of the cul de sac.
    

    You were going fine until "the end of the cul de sac",

    You've just killed Alfie and Shirley



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Is it not your lack of forethought that is evident? Based on your directions the poor old hitman will be driving along a country lane expecting a house to come into view on his left when he will suddenly come to what appears to be a dead end and a driveway up to a house on the right. Oh and Sophie liked to keep the gate closed when she was there to further confuse the situation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    There's three houses within a 100m radius at the 'end' of the cul de sac. The first on the left, about ¾ mile up the cul de sac is the one, exactly as described.

    I don't think anyone would expect someone to measure the distance to each front door to measure to the metre or centimetre, which was the furthest from the turn off and therefore 'the end of the cul de sac' in the narrowest, most literal, to the point of absurdity, interpretation.

    At this stage I can only conclude you are being deliberately obtuse as you are not comfortable with the fact that from what we are aware of, this crime is still completely wide open.

    You conveniently haven't addressed whether you would have noticed the driveway and large white gable on the left as you got to the 'end' of the cul de sac.

    As you round the corner around ⅔ way down the cul de sac it's the first house you would see.

    By your reasoning the murderer would drive past the first house on the left, as described, within a metre or two of the house and drive a further 50m or so to get to the second house at the 'end' of the cul de sac before looking for a house on the left. 🙄 or having been told it is on the left you would go right 🙄🙄


    Again I can only conclude you are being deliberately obtuse as you are not comfortable with the fact that the house is easy to find, even by someone not familiar with the area and the implications this has for the investigation.



This discussion has been closed.
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