Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

I think the Express article is not Express turning away from Brexit but Express turning away from Johnson. Preparing the ground for a new shiny Tory replacement.

I get the impression that Frost has climbed down in private on the ECJ, but doesn't want the Brexit supporting public to know. Note how this emerged in the midst of all the Johnson furore.

It's almost like Brexiters are more susceptible to lies

This is unfair. Older people's higher death rates from Covid are not due to ignorance. They are due to being old.

Confirmed what was always assumed..... UK rolling back on more items that they are supposed to be well advanced on

They cannot admit Brexit is an abject failure and that they should never have left the Single Market (as the UK was in no way ready or prepared to do so).

We're effectively watching a western democracy being hijacked by a rogue regime and a rogue set of voters (anyone who votes Conservative or who voted Leave).

It's worth pointing out that the EU doesn't care about, and certainly doesn't object to, this particular delay. The UK's inability to operate customs controls on goods imported into the UK is a problem for the UK. It's a benefit for countries that export to the UK.

The decision to withdraw from the Single Market after 25 years of core membership for purely political / ideological reasons is a mind boggling one. One explanation is that the regime itself didn't even remotely understand what the Single Market is and how it operates - the UK civil service probably does, but has been overruled at all points by the loons (including Johnson) giving out the orders.

One key takeaway from this is that the Brexit leadership are not very intelligent people. A Thatcher or Major or Blair would instinctively understand how important the Single Market is and that leaving it would be a disastrous move. I get the impression the Brexit godfathers, despite all their gusto and bravado, are not very bright and are a really poor calibre of politician. Most of them wouldn't have even got into a Cabinet 20 or 30 years ago.

I would still argue they are a very poor calibre of politician. The likes of Johnson, Raab, Patel, Hancock, Williamson, Truss etc probably wouldn't have even gotten into a Tory Cabinet thirty years ago - we're talking about utter mediocrities and people who are not especially bright or gifted.

The genuine talents like Dominic Grieve and Rory Stewart were hounded out of the party for being anti-Brexit.

Prior to the brexit referendum, euroscepticism in the major parties was the preserve of the "loser/failure/2nd rate/mediocre" politicians.

Brexit filtered for political mediocrity.

Following the brexit victory, only these mediocrities could be selected from to represent "the will of the people".

If you’re a van driver or driving a commercial vehicle with a trailer from the uk doing drops to the EU a you’re in for a rude awakening,

£1100 to operate now for uk drivers in the EU.

I’ve heard rather expression death by 1000 cuts , but the EU is really biting Brexiteers hard.

Also I saw two Van life female campers explaining really well and intelligently, how Europe differs from EU and ultimately Schengen area.

they explained how the 180 / 90 day rule works and how UK people could use the Schengen area to legally circumvent not having to return to the actual UK auto stay legal in Europe and not fall foul of EU rules if you wanted to stay away from the UK for more than a year.

this was about 3 months ago.

In fairness they weren’t being , smart, arrogant or smug about this but were demonstrating a genuine way to stay in Europe post Brexit for more than 3 months by using non Schengen areas and Turkey etc.

However their plan was to stay in Slovenia and Croatia, but now, in December, Slovenia and Croatia are snowed under so instead of ideally being down around the warm med ,Brexit has forced them to be frozen out , and they are on their way home to UK now, and going to spend post Christmas in Scotland .

Also apart from the cold the native winter time (as against summer holiday makers)reaction to the now mandatory UK and GB sticker has caused them untold hostility from the normally friendly locals.

After the first IRAQ war reading a book about how the US got involved there, one of the fascinating things was a lot of the supporting cast, including the guy that had first used the term shock and awe, were brought into the inner circle specifically because of their views. Several were people that in the states contributed to right wing websites and publications. The controlling element in the Republican party were itching for an opportunity to demonstrate how awesome the US Military were.

People who parroted that line were promoted into policy decision making areas. I think the same happened with the Tories. Having a solid block of MP's that defined themselves only as opposed to Europe, any aspiring MP seemed to need to bow o the ERG grouping if they wanted to progress their careers. Theresa May was a good example. I wonder if she held such venomous attitudes to immigrants or was it simply the best way of progressing to the top.

Boris is in an impossible position now, he has emboldened a rump of the party that is now almost drunk on it's own power. They have huge power with little responsibility, I believe they don't want to be ministers, I think they feel their in a perfect position.