Angus Bull for Suckler Herd

Sounds great but the truth I believe is that anyone staying in sucklers is going to have to breed top quality stock if they want to turn a profit. There are plenty of good weanlings come into more than aa finished stock and are gone at 7 or eight months rather than holding to 20 or 22 months.

Agree with blue, Very hard to get a decent angus bull & you'll pay a handsome price. I changed back to 5 star limo bull that was half the price, if I need to sell before finishing I can whereas with the angus had to hold off & the cross of the ch was poor I found, crossed nicely with the blue

The reality with suckling is even with say 10 cows you need to use two types of bull. The Angus out of a Continental cow is a fine calf & very saleable at any stage. But once you start approaching 75% Angus the quality is well back and so too are your returns. Similar with a well bred continental cow, she can be lacking in milk. The ideal is to use an Angus bull on continental cow & a continental bull on Angus cows. This is possible with AI but not so simple with stock bulls. There is a lad beside me at it with a Hereford bull on Charolais cows & buying in replacement Charolais heifers. He is killing supper stock & getting the Hereford bonus on them all & is bull must be over 10 years old now as he keeps none of his daughters for breding.

I know a couple of men 3 off the top of my head that work hereford and charolais bulls. I took an odd walk through their cattle at times (with them, I’m not the owner of the one wellie from yon other thread!) and I was surprised how well the hereford cattle were doing. Very impressive. I thought the charolais end of it wouldn’t have enough milk to keep the calf but there you go. The lim bull is hard to beat for an all rounder. Would love something similar to the last fella we had but I wouldn’t be convinced that his heifers are good breeders. Only one round of them so far so next summer will tell a lot.

In fairness squinn I have seen a few photos you have put up of your cattle on here and they are first class stock.

Thanks Anto you’re very decent to say that. Like everyone else good, bad and in the middle.

Separating cows for ai is hassle and time consuming. This lad also works. His system is less complicated the way it is. Using the HE bull gives him the bonus in the factory. Crossing the other way would have similar quality cattle without the bonus.

I use ai a small bit, most cows repeat at least once from it. It's a much higher repeat rate than with my bulls. Is this the norm?

You can chop and change livestock breeding as much as you like but when you plant you’ve destroyed the farm forever for keeping livestock. Each to their own

I have recently changed from selling forward heifirs and cows in the mart to killing them myself. I used to have the same opinion as you on the factories. However after selling forward types and having them make less per kg because they were too fleshy for a number of years. I've started keeping them a little longer and killing them. So far I'm happy enough. A lot of the time there are only a few buyers in the mart for forward types and those lads like to get their margin.

However this year, they are going well everywhere, so it mightn't make much difference.

I killed 2 cows on wed, they both graded r and killed 54%. One was 13 yo and looked an o to me. They got 10lb of nuts since 1st November, which is not a lot imo. But I think if the feeding is in them, you're better off in the factory

All I know is any time we’ve been closed up with tb had forced to go with factory we’ve not got the value of our animals. The marts here that’s what the buyers are looking for, a farmer couldnt get a look in except for smaller cattle. Maybe it’s different where you are but from what I know I’d have to disagree with you. Dealers are getting 20-30p plus for factory and so they can give 10-15p plus in mart.

I’d often hear the older lads talking about some man ‘he always kept great cattle and then he went and he bought an angus bull and that put him away to hell.’

+1

IMO the introduction of US and Canadian bloodlines into the "traditional" breeds has made them more commercially viable. For too long Irish Angus, Hereford and Shorthorn breeders got caught up trying to chase the easy calving/short gestation route to suit dairy farmers but to detriment of their respective breeds. Thankfully some pedigree breeders have embraced these new bloodlines and I think they will suit the earlier slaughter ages in the Governments climate action plan.

So what do you reckon is the alternative for many farmers - mostly older full time but some are young and part time throughout the Country on smaller farms and in some cases marginal land.

Some well ploughed ground here.