M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Chris_5339762 · 01-11-2021 11:52am

That article just sums up all we know already and puts a hysterical headline on it.

I think even Eamon Ryan knows this road is needed - the question is what quality. It should be M20 by all rights, but we may end up with 2+2 or a silly mixture. With some railway upgrades included too, which TBH wouldn't hurt either.

marno21 · 01-11-2021 11:58am

Those 2 articles have slow news day written all over them. Nothing new in there

alias no.9 · 02-11-2021 11:42am

Whatever you might think of the M28 Steering Group, I personally think that they have done huge harm in delaying infrastructure, they at least had a public and online presence beyond press releases.

This campaign group trying to reroute the M20 via Cahir claims to represent 1500 landowners, businesspeople and farmers yet there is no online presence. I'm deliberately not using their name because there are so few search hits for them.

They have the PR skills to get repeated statements and interviews in national media but the lack of any evidence of them publicising a public meeting would suggest that there has never been a public meeting because they seem to know how to get messages out there when they want to. The only name that seems to be associated with them is their Chairperson, who else is a member?

Are our Journalists capable of doing the slightest of background checks any more or do they just regurgitate press releases?

Chris_5339762 · 08-11-2021 3:09pm

I thought you all might appreciate knowing that I had a dream about the M20 last night. Not that it was built in my dream, oh no.

The route recommendation turned out to be the Mitchelstown - Limerick routing, or the navy routing in the dream. Not only was it a terrible option, but they swung west to avoid some of the hills near Mitchelstown, but ended up going over a mountain that was over 700m in height that happened to be the westernmost.

That was about it, but it was an interesting dream nonetheless.

Bass Reeves · 08-11-2021 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136421#Comment_118136421

That wasn't a dream it was a nightmare you had🤣🤣🤣

Hibernicis · 27-11-2021 9:45am

Article about the N20 in today’s IT

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/ireland-s-deadliest-road-it-s-like-she-s-frozen-now-forever-at-29-1.4739121

serfboard · 27-11-2021 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118230915#Comment_118230915

“It’s a treacherous road and for it to have been left like this, for all these years with the amount of people, young and old, that have been killed on it, it’s just a disgrace.”

Heartbreak Hank · 30-11-2021 4:09pm

Any indication of when the preferred route will be announced?

pajoguy · 30-11-2021 7:34pm

Early Q1 2022

Murph85 · 01-12-2021 10:34pm

I read an article earlier saying only 5000 cars were expected to travel between cork and limerick on the new m20.. is that true?!

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/ireland-s-deadliest-road-it-s-like-she-s-frozen-now-forever-at-29-1.4739121

Cookiemunster · 01-12-2021 10:49pm

I don't know about the 5000 number, but most of the traffic on the road is commuter traffic into the cities at each end rather than actually traveling from city to city.

There is however quite a lot of end to end traffic which avoids the current road and travels via Mitchelstown instead. You would assume that this traffic would switch to the better, shorter M20 once it's completed.

Murph85 · 01-12-2021 10:54pm

If the 3 billion price tag is accurate, it seems a staggering amount for the relatively minuscule numbers that will use it...

Aontachtoir · 01-12-2021 11:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253813#Comment_118253813

The article explains why that figure is misleading almost directly after it is first mentioned. It might be worth taking another read of it.

Cookiemunster · 01-12-2021 11:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253991#Comment_118253991

The €3bn price tag is nothing but Green propaganda. It says in the article it would be around €1.4bn

And you must have missed this section.

“When you are designing a road, you just don’t count the traffic end to end, you count all the intermediate stages as well. So while there may be 3,000 to 5,000 vehicles a day from Limerick making the full journey to Cork, you have much higher volumes on other sections.

“We get around 17,000 vehicles coming into Limerick at the northern end. It starts to drop down gradually then towards Charleville and Buttevant, to around 13,000 a day. But then it ramps up to 17,000 or 18,000 around Mallow and from Blarney into Cork then it’s up to around 25,000 a day.

“And what is more significant is that some sections are just over capacity – sections where you have no hard shoulders and a lot of junctions and accesses. Even at the middle section, where volume is lowest, 13,000, that’s still 5,000 over capacity and in some places it’s far worse than that.

Did you actually read the whole article?

Bass Reeves · 02-12-2021 10:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118254153#Comment_118254153

No he didn't read the article. He just came in with a set attitude and just ignored the data. He pulled a bit of missleading data and tried to use this as s reason to knock the need for a road.

The figures in that article are staggering. I was under the impression from other data I saw that There was about 10k equivalent end to end journey's. From this article it's even 13k in mid section and way higher at the ends

KrisW1001 · 02-12-2021 11:09am

A relief-map will show you why. N20 goes through a narrow plain between the Ballyhoura (to the east) and Mullaghareirk (to the west) mountains: anyone living north or south of this natural pass will use N20, because as bad as it is, it’s still the best road in the area.

Murph85 · 02-12-2021 11:25am

Also yes, I did read the entire article... those figures are fine a lot of money and the project should obviously NEVER have been shelved back in 2011. It was typical irish political idiocy... But if it were 3 billion, and i am not saying it will be... But that is a SERIOUS amount of money, for the relatively small amount of journeys on the road...

Cookiemunster · 02-12-2021 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118255553#Comment_118255553

So even after it was pointed to you more than once, you still choose to ignore the fact that the road is not about end to end traffic? You ignore the fact that even the quietest section of the road is 5000 vehicles over capacity each day? That there are 17,000 vehicles a day at the Croom end and 25000 a day the the Blarney end? I'd suggest that you have an agenda and you're sticking to it.

Even if it did cost €3bn it would be good value for money because it will save people lives and it will be there for the next century. This Irish obsession with the cost of infrastructural projects that will last generations is fúcking infuriating.

Murph85 · 02-12-2021 11:53am

The run away costs are a disgrace, if this thing is going to be built. It should be built asap! before costs continue to escalate, the same with dublin metro etc. But the reality is, nor you or I or anyone knows the final costs, we dont have a crystal ball! But what is an absolute disgrace is, the political can kicking, that have seen many lives lost and likely over half a billion euro increase, for the exact same road! It is an absolute disgrace!

cjpm · 02-12-2021 11:59am

Forget the €3 billion estimate, its a complete fabrication.

Eamonn Ryan pulled that figure out of his arse to try and turn public opinion against the scheme.

TII appointed a new chairman, a Welsh man. Best of luck to him, at least he comes from a country with proper road infrastructure.

From the Indo

“Limerick TD Kieran O’Donnell who chaired the meeting sought a commitment that Mr Llewellyn would drive from Limerick to Cork to see for himself why representatives from the region were admant a motorway must be built between the cities.”

Bass Reeves · 02-12-2021 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118255553#Comment_118255553

The first thing is that at present costings it shoud not costs 3 billion or even half it. It's a critical piece of infrastructure. In its present state due to accidents, crashes, time lose, economic loss to businesses it is probably costing the economy over 100 million a year.

In considering uneconomic projects, Colm McCarthy made a good point about the proposed North side and Airport metro. It costed at 10 billion. At present in consultant and other reports it has cost 240 million. It will cost double that taking it to the planning/ project viability stage over the he next 2-3 years.

His opinion is that there is no economic case for it at that cost.but because of the uproar it will not be shelved...but it will never be build in his opinion. If that 750 million was spend on bus infrastructure in Dublin how much better value would it be.

It's the same with the Limerick- Cork rail proposal it makes no economic sense. Rail projects in low density situation which even Dublin is are not good ways of spending money

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/only-bus-routes-not-trains-can-solve-irelands-transport-dilemma-41049057.html

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/were-there-no-adults-in-the-room-when-they-drew-up-the-national-development-plan-40933253.html

marno21 · 02-12-2021 1:59pm

Peter Walsh of TII explained quite well here where 3bn nonsense came from:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_transport_and_communications/2021-11-03/2/

About halfway down the page. It’s a lengthy discussion with Kieran O’Donnell.

The reason the figure has got so much traction despite being the higher end of an imprecise arbitrary cost categorisation is because the Minister in charge is a spanner.

Limerick74 · 02-12-2021 11:25pm

The Corkman has a similar article to the Irish Times article

Local Irish News.pdf

cjpm · 03-12-2021 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118256323#Comment_118256323

He's a danger to rural Ireland. Lives will be lost on terrible roads due to his stupidity.

Bsharp · 03-12-2021 8:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118256272#Comment_118256272

Where do all the extra street-level buses go once they get into Dublin city centre? There isn't enough road space or kerbside space for all the additional movements.

Colm McCarthy has very little knowledge about actual transport planning. He looks at high level cost figures and makes assumptions based off prejudice for spending capital investment. Transport infrastructure, like rail or a safe road, will benefit generations.

Hibernicis · 03-12-2021 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118260233#Comment_118260233

That's for sharing. That article from The Corkman is fact based, well written and covers quite a lot of the issues. It contrasts with the opinionated sensationalist drivel on road development we regularly see from the Examiner/Echo.