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driving with a UK provisional license

  • 30-11-2021 10:31pm
    #1
    aegle
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭


    I was driving with a UK provisional license in Dublin and was caught in an accident. A UK provisional license holder is forced to have no insurance in Ireland as no vendor offers insurance cover. The result is that I was driving with no insurance and driving with no license. Can someone advise what will be consequence in a court?



«13

Comments

  • #2
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A very significant fine and a driving ban most likely. The max punishment for both offences is imprisonment.

    A UK provisional licence is completely irrelevant here so its not a case that a holder is forced to have no insurance, a holder has no ability to have insurance. Or drive.



  • #3
    .42.
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭.42.


    Driving Ban and Fine I would think.



  • #4
    Glaceon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    You're not allowed to drive on an Irish learner's permit in the UK so I assume the reverse is true. This is probably why you can't get insurance cover.



  • #5
    aegle
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭aegle


    I moved to Ireland in July with a UK registered car. The car was re-registered with an Irish plate. I am a bit scared. Do you think a solicitor can help to ease the consequence?



  • #6
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,631 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Nobody “forced” you to drive without insurance. That’s something you chose to do. As you’ve already been told, expect a driving ban and a fine at a minimum. If the accident was your fault, you were not insured, so expect that to be an aggravating factor.



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  • #7
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    Failure to have motor insurance or driving without insurance in Ireland is generally punishable by:

    • A fine of up to €5,000
    • 5 penalty points; and
    • At the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding 6 months.

    The court may decide that you be disqualified from driving instead of incurring penalty points. In that case, you will be disqualified for 2 years or more for a first offence and 4 years or more in the case of a second offence committed within 3 years of the first.


    If you don’t have a current licence, and your driving licence expired less than 12 months before the offence took place, you could be fined up to €1000. If it was more than 12 months since your licence was valid (or if you never had a valid licence), you could be fined up to €2000.

    If you drive while disqualified from driving, or you are required to produce a certificate of competency or certificate of fitness before getting a driving licence but you fail to do so, you could be fined up to €6000, or be imprisoned for up to 6 months, or both.


    What yer getting is screwed, And rightly so. If it's your first offence I wouldn't be packing your toothbrush but I hope you can afford the 6k fine you'll prob be getting.



  • #8
    .42.
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭.42.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248140#Comment_118248140

    are the Guards involved?



  • #9
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248140#Comment_118248140

    I wouldn't even consider going to court without a solicitor experienced in the subject.

    Also be prepared for the MIBI to seek to recover from you any costs they bear in paying for the other drivers repairs/costs.



  • #10
    aegle
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭aegle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248171#Comment_118248171

    Yes, a Garda came to the scene and asked my details.



  • #11
    Shield
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,631 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    Hey @foreign any comments or thoughts on this one?



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  • #12
    MBE220d
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248140#Comment_118248140

    You cant drive on a provisional licence in the UK either unless accompanied by a person with a full licence.



  • #13
    reubenreuben
    Registered Users Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭reubenreuben


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248207#Comment_118248207

    Very true. What was the OP thinking? No excuse tbh



  • #14
    aegle
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭aegle


    driving without a license automatically leads to driving without an insurance. In this particular situation, will driving offence be 'driving without a license only' or 'driving without a license and an insurance'?

    If the offence is only driving without a license, will court become mandatory?



  • #15
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,074 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Driving without insurance is dealt with in court, it will trump not having a licence...

    Insurance

    You must have motor insurance to drive a car in your own name or as a named driver on someone else's policy. If a Garda asks for your insurance certificate, you must provide it within 7 days. Offences for driving without insurance are prosecuted in court. Failure to display an insurance disk carries a fixed charge of €60 (rising to €90 after 28 days).

    If you drive while uninsured, you could be fined up to €5000 and get 5 penalty points. You could also go to prison for up to 6 months. The judge may decide to disqualify you from driving instead of giving you penalty points. You can read more in our document on ‘Motor insurance’.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html#l011a8



  • #16
    .42.
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭.42.


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248341#Comment_118248341

    I think you will get a summons for court.

    Do you mind me asking where you the cause of the accident?

    Was the car taxed in Ireland?



  • #17
    BuildTheWall
    Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭BuildTheWall


    How can an Irish court put a driving ban on a UK licence? Probably most they can do is a fine and hold a record of you in case you ever try and exchange the UK licence for an Irish one.



  • #18
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Barry Cowen up to his old tricks again I see.



  • #19
    aegle
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭aegle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248373#Comment_118248373

    the car is taxed, NCT registered



  • #20
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248396#Comment_118248396

    You are added to the Irish system if you try to get an Irish licence that you have a ban.


    Since the UK & Ireland share this info now you will be banned in both countries.

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-mutual-recognition-driving-disqualifications-ukireland



  • #21
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    If you can prove you had a difficult disadvantaged upbringing you'll be grand.



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  • #22
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248396#Comment_118248396

    Is the ban related to a licence, or a person?

    My thinking was that it's a person who is banned.

    OP doesn't even have a licence in UK and his provisional is not recognised here.



  • #23
    aegle
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭aegle


    Driving without insurance may lead to a ban on driving.

    The penalties for driving without license are a maximum fine of €1,000 if your licence had expired for a period of less than 12 months. In any other case the maximum fine is €2,000. If you were disqualified from driving at the time of the offence the maximum fine that may be imposed is €6,000 together with a maximum custodial sentence of 6 months.

    I don't see a driving ban on consequences for driving without license.



  • #24
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There isn't a ban for driving without a licence, but you are are on a hiding to nothing if you think you can argue that the uninsured charge isn't relevant due to not having a licence.

    You will be charged with both. There is absolutely no angle to argue away the insurance charge.

    A solicitor won't let you try it. If you tried that on your own, there'd be an increased chance of being sent to prison by a pissed off judge.



  • #25
    aegle
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭aegle



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249616#Comment_118249616

    My understanding is that driving without insurance means that the person is able to have an insurance cover but he chooses not to. The person is willing to not have insurance. In my situation, I thought that UK provisional license is a valid one. I am not able to buy any insurance cover even though I want to buy one. So I am unwilling to. One is active. Another is forced. See OP. Does this make a good argument?



  • #26
    Ljmscooter
    Registered Users Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Ljmscooter


    Deserves to get absolutely reamed



  • #27
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249953#Comment_118249953

    You did chose to drive without insurance, you had the choice to not drive.

    Its an absolutely awful argument. No solicitor would let you try it.



  • #28
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249953#Comment_118249953

    A provisional licence is not valid out of the state it was issued so of course you couldn't get insurance. You have been driving with no licence in Ireland.

    Using that excuse won't work with regards to the insurance as it's not up to the state to make sure you follow the rules just enforce them when you don't keep to the rules.



  • #29
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,615 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118249953#Comment_118249953

    You need to rethink that I'd suggest.

    Driving without a valid license and insurance are serious offences. You really have no excuse.



  • #30
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,716 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    whether you feel you were "forced" to have no insurance or not (which is a nonsense argument IMO) is irrelevant. You clearly knew you were uninsured and drove anyway.

    I don't buy that you didn't know your UK learner permit wasn't valid either - who wouldn't at least check such a thing, particularly after learning that insurance companies won't cover you (if you even rang them, your whole story sounds totally dubious if any of this really happened).



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  • #31
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,441 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250059#Comment_118250059

    No, no, no...

    I propose we let the OP run with this interesting line of thinking and see how it plays out.

    As long as when the summons is received they give us a heads up on the Court and date? Because I really, really want to be in the gallery for that!



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