Driving without Due Care or Attention.

JustJoe7240 · 28-11-2021 11:09pm #1

Posting on behalf of a family member here,

My father was involved in a collision on a narrow rural backroad. To illustrate, I've added a crude MS paint picture.He is the red block travelling in the direction of the arrow. They met right on a turn , And my father seeing the other guy had left room on the left hand side of his vehicle headed for the gap,but neither had time to stop and collided. Other party insisted on calling the guards. Gard came out, and took a statement. Not saying much, and said he'd contact both the next day.My father, while not taking any responsibility for the accident said he was happy they'd both fix their own vehicles. A couple weeks later, having not heard anything back from that gard in question, recieved a FPN for driving without due care and attention, 2 points and an 80 quid fine. The other guy, did not receive any FPN. Would he have any right to appeal here as it seems pretty unjust?. As per citizensinformation, "If a Garda believes that you have driven carelessly, but no accident resulted, the Garda can issue you with 2 penalty points and an €80 fixed charge for “driving without reasonable consideration"

Obviously a risk as rises to 4 pts and a 120 euro fine in court.

Lewis_Benson · 29-11-2021 12:16am

Was the other driver driving on the wrong side of the road when your father collided with him?

JustJoe7240 · 29-11-2021 12:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237789#Comment_118237789

Picture probably over exaggerates as the road is quite narrow but he was a considerable distance from the ditch on his side.

Mjolnir · 29-11-2021 12:43am

Was it a narrow back road or a single lane type road that cars have to move to the side and let one pass at a time?

Where did they collide exactly front on side on at the rear ?

If its the type of road that's a single lane both cars share or even a very narrow two lane, why would he move to the other cars left and not his own?

JustJoe7240 · 29-11-2021 12:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237866#Comment_118237866

It's a narrow back road,Generally no room for cars to pass unless there's a house or a grass verge or a field gateway. They collided on the front left corner of both. Reason was there was a grass verge on his right hand side, and as he saw the other guy was well over, he thought he might have room to slip past or at least give him more room to stop.

Mjolnir · 29-11-2021 12:55am

Ah yea see that's the issue, he moved towards an on coming vechicle if I'm picking this up correctly. In that situation you'd be expected to either attempt to stop or move to your left away from the on coming vechicle.

Strictly speaking its completely just, the other guy was well on his side and your dad headed towards him, there would be no reason to issue the other driver a fpn.

JustJoe7240 · 29-11-2021 12:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237893#Comment_118237893

But he did attempt to move away from the oncoming vehicle, It just so happened, due to the width of the road, and the other guys road position there was more room to the right of him than the left. Neither vehicle was stationary at the time of the collision.

Surely if it was that clear cut, the garda would have indicated who was liable in that case?

Mjolnir · 29-11-2021 1:06am

He travelled into the path of an on coming vehicle according to your first post.

Where there is more room is relatively irrelevant, its your responsibility to drive in a manner that allows you to stop in your lane and avoid a collision. Driving towards a vechicle or towards the other lane rather than towards the ditch would be considered driving without due care.

You'd be expected to either stop or head towards a ditch not another car.

If the other driver had left plenty of room, as far as the guard is concerned it would be an open and shut case. You could attempt to challenge it but if your dad explains it like that I can't imagine a judge being over sympathetic to his case.

JustJoe7240 · 29-11-2021 1:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237909#Comment_118237909

But he was already in the path of oncoming vehicle as it's a single lane carriageway? By that definition the other driver isn't driving with care as he didn't stop either. Had he not tried to take evasive action there would have still been a collision, only difference being they would have met head on as opposed to corner on corner.

For what it's worth, Personally I don't this it's worth challenging as it's purely down to a judges interpretation and he's risking another 2 points(The rationale behind that is a whole other topic). I was questioning the wording on the citizens information page regarding no accident being caused.

keano25 · 29-11-2021 1:16am

Pay it and let it go... He crossed over. Should of just stopped dead and it would be 50/50. Those are the brakes as they say.

Mjolnir · 29-11-2021 1:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237930#Comment_118237930

So it's a single lane road where opposing traffic share the exact same lane? If so I picked ya up wrong but point still stands.

If so still at fault. He still headed towards on opposing vechicle. The other car didn't head towards him ideally both should of headed towards the ditch or attempted to come to a dead stop.

Tell him to pay it mate, judge wouldn't spend long on it at all.

jpfahy · 29-11-2021 1:22am

The most basic rule of the road is that you must be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear. Neither driver abided by this so both are guilty of driving without due care and attention. It could be argued that the driver of the red car, once he saw a collision was inevitable, at least tried to take evasive action while the other did not. A penalty for only one driver here is inappropriate, should have been neither or both. Without an independent witness or professional examination of the scene little can be done however. One person's word against the other.

JustJoe7240 · 29-11-2021 1:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237951#Comment_118237951

I appreciate that, I just thought it odd he received a fpn and the other driver didn't. That's taking the guy at his word of course.

Goose81 · 29-11-2021 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058220232/driving-without-due-care-or-attention

He has no comeback. Similar happened to me, I mentioned it to my solicitor who was dealing with the case for me and he said not to bother appealing.

kirving · 30-11-2021 2:04pm

Crossing onto the wrong side of the road to get past is the problem here.

I'd be arguing though, that the other car was on the "wrong" side of the road first, which reduced their field of view around the right hand bend, and that the OP's father had no option but to cross onto the free right side of the lane to try and avoid a collision. Write it all down, and call to the station.

But, rural area, the other (local) person insists on calling the Gards, who arrive, keep their mouth shut, and issue only the OP a fine. My money is 100% on the other driver knowing the Gard.

bladespin · 30-11-2021 2:42pm

Was the other car stopped? Just wondering.

JustJoe7240 · 30-11-2021 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118244802#Comment_118244802

Well that was what he told the Garda who arrived on the scene, Small rural station, both my father and the other guy know the Garda.

JustJoe7240 · 30-11-2021 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118245020#Comment_118245020

No he hadn't stopped either

zg3409 · 01-12-2021 10:52am

If you go to court at Gardai does not show up, then case may be forgotten. If Garda does show up judge will believe Gardas point of view. Is it worth the day off work, stress etc. Often it's better to be represented by a solicitor than having a go with a judge yourself, but not worth expense.

As Garda is known its probably not worth the fight. Insurance premium may or may not go up, depending on insurer.

In terms of driving on a narrow road all drivers must be travelling at a speed where they can stop for example if road is blocked by stopped car, cows etc. You should slow right down on bends, presuming road may be blocked. It's hard to know exact circumstances, but ideally you need to be fully stopped before other car reaches you.

Driving without Due Care or Attention.

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