Termination of Part IV with false reason?

Tar.Aldarion · 18-11-2021 8:04pm #1

A good friend of mine asked her landlord to fix her shower a few times in the last few months and he kept having a look and saying it will do (the water won't drain so if you shower it fills immediately, she tried the products that are supposed to fix it), she asked could he please get a plumber to look and instead he has gone down and stuck a notice of termination on her front door, saying he now needs this dwelling for himself and his wife. Good timing eh!

The bit that is laughably untrue is that this is a rich elderly couple that are welllll into being millionaires, and they are saying they are going to leave their mansion and live in a, and I can't stress this enough, tiny studio that is in really bad disrepair, their closets are bigger than it. Is there any redress to these kind of blatant falsehoods or do you have to wait and see after you are kicked out that they aren't living there? I'm not even sure how that could be ascertained as they built this and other apartments under their own house. They tried to kick out her neighbour last year and she went to court and now she can stay, but not sure what went on there.

YipeeDee · 18-11-2021 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218619/termination-of-part-iv-with-false-reason

They are within their rights to take their property back for their own use or for their kids / family members.

You’ve said the “couple” live in a mansion and you can’t see why they’d need the property to live in.

Well “couples” can have marriage troubles and one or the other of them might need the property to live in. (Just giving you an example there)

They really don’t need to explain why they need their own property once it’s for their own use, or if they’ve specified it’s for a family member to live in.

Tar.Aldarion · 18-11-2021 8:53pm

I am not saying that a person does not have rights to actually use a property of their own to live in. I am questioning what a tenant does if they believe the reason used to be false? The specifics are neither here not there regarding the process that would be undertaken. Is there recourse to act with somebody like the RTB now, or do they have to wait until eviction, and how is it enforced that the reason used was true?

YipeeDee · 18-11-2021 9:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118188025#Comment_118188025

Well, if they were saying that they were taking back the property for their kid / family member to live in and a few months later they advertised the property available for rent.

In that scenario, your friend could take a case to the RTB, because the LL should have offered the tenancy back to the displaced tenant.

I really can’t say for sure if the same would apply to the LL himself taking the property back for his own use.

And I’m not sure what the time limit is, might be up to a year, again I’m not sure.

But I don’t think there’s a whole lot right now, that your friend can do to disprove the LL’s grounds for terminating the tenancy because he needs the property for himself.

He seems to be within his legal remit to get his property back.

And from what you’ve said about a previous dispute with another tenant / neighbour of your friend.

Sounds like this is not the LL’s first rodeo.

He will have learnt from the mistakes he made last time.

Only thing I could recommend would be to get on to either the RTB or Threshold and ask them if the LL advertises the property for rent in the future (or within whatever the time frame is) Will your friend have the right to take a case because the tenancy should have been offered back to them.

That’s all I can think of sorry, maybe some others might have better ideas for you.

Caranica · 19-11-2021 9:42am

Sticking a notice on the front door is not a legal way of serving notice for starters.

I'm reluctant to recommend threshold to anyone as they've been known to give false information but I think she needs to give them a call.

Dav010 · 19-11-2021 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118189769#Comment_118189769

I could be wrong, but the legislation states notice must be in writing, it doesn’t say it must be mailed to the tenant.

Didn't the Court rule that an eviction notice stuck to the gates of the O’Donnells house in Killiney was valid?

Op, I suspect some owners of big houses are taking advantage of high prices to downsize.

DubCount · 19-11-2021 10:57am

There is nothing to suggest the reason for termination is invalid (yet). There is no way to know for sure until the tenancy has ended. If it later proves to be invalid, then the former tenant could be in line for a nice windfall after an RTB case.

This kind of situation really shows why the only way of improving tenant rights is with additional supply. If some penny pinching LL wont fix the shower, the tenant just moves on to a property and a LL who will maintain a higher standard.

MacDanger · 19-11-2021 2:42pm

I guess the first thing to check is if the notice of termination is valid or not; the requirements for a notice to be valid are listed here:

Notices of Termination | Residential Tenancies Board (rtb.ie)

If you're sure that the notice not valid, then ignore it. Since the termination is because the LL requires the property for themselves, the notice should also include the details specified in point # 3 here (this includes how long the person moving into the property is expected to occupy it for):

Grounds to end a tenancy | Residential Tenancies Board (rtb.ie)

If that's all in order, there's not a lot your friend can do for now; they can monitor the property (e.g. call around to check for post in a few months time) after moving out to see if the LL is actually living there and raise a case with the RTB if they have good reason to believe the LL was lying.

Good luck with it

Homer · 19-11-2021 6:45pm

OP you seem to know a bizarre amount of information about your “friends” landlords???

Tar.Aldarion · 19-11-2021 8:36pm

Thanks for the replies! The will probably have to move and keep an eye to see is it rented again then it seems. I think notice should be sent by registered post or there is no evidence of it at all? That's just a he said she said at that point. As for knowing a lot about them, no it is not me haha, I'm trying to buy a house, I do not like people taking advantage (if they are, of course) of those that I care about however, and to me, this reason is unlikely to be true from personal knowledge of the situation.

spaceHopper · 20-11-2021 7:57pm

The notice should have been on a RTB template and it should have stated that they have 28 days to lodge an appeal with the RTB, If the LL is chance as he sounds then the RTB will know him.

Regarding the blocked shower, check in the garden where the pipe comes out and see if it's blocked with hair,

mrslancaster · 22-11-2021 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118193412#Comment_118193412

Registered post is not required but a copy of the notice of termination should be sent to the RTB and a NoT for own use should include a statutory declaration. If a property becomes available to rent again within 12 months it should be offered back to the tenant and if it's more than 12 months, then afaik, it can be re-let on the open market.

Can't really see why a landlord would use that reason unless it was true because they would be down at least 12-15 months rent from when the tenant left until they had a new tenant plus costs to re-paint/replace items and letting agent fees. It would be much easier/cheaper to fix the shower problem and keep the current tenants.

Ray Palmer · 23-11-2021 11:24am

the idea that somebody would kick out a tenant over the cost of a plumber seems unlikely. It might make them decide to move plans forward but economically it doesn't make much sense.

Termination of Part IV with false reason?

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