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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,269 ✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I emailed Eamon Ryan to complain about recent delays to large public transport investment projects. I got a long detailed email in reply. Here was the part relating to DART+.

    "DART+ is a programme which actually comprises five different projects, each of which is moving at different speeds and is at different stages of development, while MetroLink is likely the largest ever public investment project in the history of the State. The BusConnects programme, like DART+, is made up of a number of different projects including the Core Bus Corridors, Next Generation Ticketing and Network Redesign.

    All three [BusConnects/Metrolink/DART] face imminent and important milestones in the coming months and these milestones will determine the progress of each in the coming years.

    Firstly, there is Government’s approval of the Preliminary Business Case and secondly there is the submission of Railway Order and planning applications to An Bord Pleanála.

    On that first milestone, the Department of Transport has received Preliminary Business Cases for all three projects. This represents Decision Gate 1 under the Public Spending Code and those Preliminary Business Cases are currently under review. For major projects, like DART+, BusConnects and MetroLink, the Public Spending Code requires a Government decision and Minister Ryan expects to seek such a Government decision in the near future.

    If approved by Government, that will allow the contracts to be signed in relation to DART+ Fleet and will also allow MetroLink, DART+ West and the Core Bus Corridors element of BusConnects move into the statutory planning system, subject to the completion of the necessary planning and environmental documentation.

     The second impending milestone is the submission of Railway Order applications for DART+ West and MetroLink, and planning applications for the Core Bus Corridors. Those applications require the finalisation of an extensive set of documentation, including environmental impact assessment reports, and that work is ongoing in relation to all three projects.

    On DART+, the most advanced of the proposed infrastructure projects is DART+ West. The second round of public consultation on DART+ West has recently been extended until early October. Issues raised during this consultation process, including those raised by public representatives, will need to be fully considered by the company and appropriately addressed before they’re ready to enter the planning system. Once that has been completed, and similar to MetroLink, DART+ West can then move into the planning system subject to the aforementioned Government approval and finalisation of planning documentation."



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    Are there any documents which show what the rolling stock will look like with schematic drawings of interiors and layouts?



  • Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    No Because there will be a public consultation on the layouts and interiors of the new carriages



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Have they actually placed the order for new Dart carriages yet? On Morning Ireland, I thought I heard Leo V say that they were on order.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    No, the preliminary business case still hasn't been approved by government. The winning bidder was chosen in May.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Gov appear to be dragging their feet on all matters. Disgraceful.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    It hasn't been brought to government yet. It's more a case of slow progress by DPER and DoT in reviewing it and bringing it to government.

    The NTA submitted the preliminary business cases for BusConnects, MetroLink and DART+ to DoT within weeks of each other in March and April. This was to be expected.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I thought that the DoT was part of the Gov. I am not familiar with the DPER.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,357 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    So DPER are also part of the Government, along with DoT. So who is dragging their feet if it is not the Government?

    If the order is not placed, the manufacture and delivery cannot be scheduled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,299 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    If they're doing a public consultation on the new Dart+ carriages. When is the start date for that part of the project?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    DART+ South West Preferred Option public consultation will be launched tomorrow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭specialbyte


    Hopefully it's pretty much the same plan but including the stations they should have included in the last round (Kylemore, Heuston West and Cabra). I'm looking forward to it more than the transport strategy release today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Bsharp


    Kylemore won't be in it. They won't propose a station without high levels of existing demand already established. It would be great to serve part of Ballyfermot and enable the sustainable redevelopment of some of the adjacent lands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,269 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    So they believe in serving existing demand but not generating new demand, that's basically a 20th century idea that's been debunked



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I strongly suspect they won't be in it and that we'll be ripping up the tracks in ten years to make space for platforms.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Heuston West (Platform 10) is in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,269 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    An high capacity urban rail system with no useful stations... might aswel cancel really



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    While the other two stations at Kylemore and Cabra should of course be in the plan, why do you keep perpetuating this “cancel it” hyperbolic nonsense.

    With all the new bus routes that are being launched, all the stations between Hazelhatch and Parkwest (all five of them) will become far more accessible, and usage will increase.

    Or do the thousands of people living in Celbridge, Lucan, Adamstown, Clondalkin and around Parkwest not count in your eyes, but only those in Ballyfermot and Cabra?

    Let’s keep a bit of perspective here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The second consultation is live here:

    https://www.dartplus.ie/en-ie/projects/dart-south-west



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,269 ✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The document suggests that the access to the Heuston West station will be via the road along the river down to Heuston main station, with pedestrian access to Clancy Quay development.

    It doesn’t make clear if the latter would be accessible to the public or for residents only.

    In my mind public access to the SCR and somehow to Conyngham Road are imperative - some form of additional bridge is needed to make the station as accessible as it ought to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I’m not - I’d just prefer some intelligent conversation rather than reading OTT hyperbole about cancelling the entire project just because two stations aren’t included. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

    DART+ SouthWest, even without the two other stations at Cabra and Kylemore, will still make an absolutely massive difference for thousands of people.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    IT reporting that Hugh Creegan (NTA Deputy CEO) told Dublin City Council today that DART Underground/DART+ Tunnel will now cost €5-6bn.

    How? ~7km of tunnel and a handful of stations for that price. Obscene.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't worry, someone will come along and tell you that you wouldn't understand, that decades of nonsense planning and postponing and eventually half-arsing it is the only way it could ever be done, that things just happen to cost more in Ireland and there's nothing that can be done about it and that anyone who points out the con of 10s of millions being spent on projects that either never see the light of day or get shelved and eventually re-designed is just throwing their toys out of their pram.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Hugh Creegan was also quoted in that article as saying that:

    "It's a major, major, international-sized project"

    I don't know what 'international-sized' means, Does it mean "it's a big project that they currently do, fairly routinely, in other countries".



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    how much would this tunnel have cost, if they built it one or two decades ago?!



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