Thoughts on this letting.

PalLimerick · 30-10-2021 5:28pm #1

Tenant in the house 4 .5 Years so has part 4 tenancy. Rent paid in full each and every month. Tenant in receipt of HAP. Never any Tenant issues, as stated rent paid and house looked after.

Upon moving in at the start the landlord assured Tenant he would do extensive exterior work, grounds work to be precise. Despite many requests over the years by the Tenant for this work to be carried out, the landlord has always put it off. Fast forward to now, Tenant asked landlord one last time to do the work, landlord called Tenant and cursed down the phone at them and said he will not carry out the work and that he is selling the house. Tenant felt that was only said because of requesting work to be carried out. Landlord issues a notice to quit with 160 days notice given. Tenant contacts Threshold, they say notice is invalid. So Tenant opens a dispute with the rtb. In the meantime, 60 days in to the notice to quit landlord texts saying he wants the Tenant out they've had enough time. Tenant tells him she does not want to be contacted about moving before she exercises their rights. She says if the landlord persists they will file a harassment complaint.

The landlord has made no attempt to put the house on the market or make a declaration of his intent to do so. The rtb have given a date in December for the hearing.

The Tenant wants to stay in the house as she suspects the house isn't going to be sold. The tenant wants some of the monthly rent back for each month paid as she never had the use of the back garden it is wild and abandoned and needs a lot of money put in to it for use. She rented a whole house not a house with no grounds. The landlord promised and has an obligation to do this work.

The HAP listed this work as needing done too in their inspection.

The Tenant is willing to exhaust all legal avenues before moving including the court Services. Do you think she is entitled to a partial rent reimbursement? The rtb have granted compensation in similar cases to this.

Thanks for reading.

Caranica · 30-10-2021 6:03pm

If he committed to doing the work to meet the HAP requirements and didn't, the risk is to HAP won't continue to be paid for that property.

Tbh letting the issue run 4.5 years might work against the tenant in terms of any potential compensation. I wouldn't be counting on it.

PalLimerick · 30-10-2021 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094957#Comment_118094957

Thank you for your input. HAP will not stop payments this has been confirmed by HAP shared services. The issue is ongoing 4.5 Years meaning that the tenant has asked the landlord on a very regular basis and he has committed in the past but never done the work. It's not a case of the tenant asking back in 2017 and never asking again. She has always been in contact with the landlord about it. My thoughts after viewing others cases online via the rtb site and one I know personally. I think she will get a partial reimbursement. Thanks again for your reply.

purpleshoe · 30-10-2021 7:08pm

What is it that the tenant wants? Accommodation, or money in their back pocket?

You say HAP have not refused to stop paying. I am immediately skeptical that the LL has notably fallen short here.

They are in receipt of HAP, what percentage of the rent do they contribute?

PalLimerick · 30-10-2021 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095293#Comment_118095293

The landlord has definitely fallen short. He has failed to do what he is obligated to. The tenant has text messages confirming he will not do the work. The logic behind the HAP keeping payments up is to not make the tenant homeless. 100% fact, the tenant has been assured that the HAP won't be stopped. She has this in writing from HAP shared services and also confirmed to her Fianna Fail representative.

The tenant wants to stay in the property, and the landlord to fulfil his obligations. She also wants partial refund of rent paid because the property could not be used to its full extent as agreed at the start of the tenancy. My honest opinion is, this won't work out well for the landlord and the tenant will be reimbursed. In approx one months time in December, she will know for sure.

purpleshoe · 30-10-2021 8:32pm

What exactly is he obligated to do? You referenced ground works but that is vague.

Deeec · 30-10-2021 8:36pm

Whatever way you look at it the relationship between the landlord and tenant is now destroyed. I don't think there is any point in the tenant staying in the house - she should just move out. If she wants to pursue the landlord for unfair treatment than fair enough but if she stays in the house it's likely the landlord will make her homelife difficult.

AmberKat · 30-10-2021 11:17pm

How much of the rent is she actually paying though? If HAP are covering the majority of it why would she be the one entitled to the reimbursement? It's not her money after all.

Mrs OBumble · 31-10-2021 12:08am

A usable back yard is not a requirement of a tenancy. Provided the house meets all requirements, I think the tenant has been foolish in the current rental market.

10pennymixup · 31-10-2021 12:13am

Is there a lease?

mrslancaster · 31-10-2021 2:56am

Did the lease mention anything about the garden eg grass cutting? Did the landlord supply a lawnmower.

Just wondering does the tenant have to notify the landlord in writing if the landlord is not meeting their obligations?

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 6:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095642#Comment_118095642

The up keep of the house including the outside. Do you think he has no obligations only to collect the rent? I don't believe you do. Going through your posts you appear to have a problem with tenants exercising their rights.

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 6:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095657#Comment_118095657

Not a hope will she move out in the current climate. This rtb case i will bet will go in her favour.

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 6:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096239#Comment_118096239

Without going in to actual figures, she pays 75 percent of rent out of her own money between what she pays to the council and the top up to the landlord which all goes through the bank. So that is the reason she is entitled in my opinion to the reimbursement.

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 6:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096568#Comment_118096568

Yes the lease mentions the landlord is responsible for the upkeep of the outside of the house including garden work. The house doesn't meet standards either as confirmed by the HAP.

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 6:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096383#Comment_118096383

It is he has given it in writing that the outside of the house including the back and front gardens will be kept by him. Also the house doesn't meet minimum standards as set out by the HAP inspection.

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 6:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096383#Comment_118096383

Expecting to get what she pays for and when she doesn't she exercises her rights is been foolish? I get the housing crisis makes properties hard to get. But she has a very strong case. It's strange the landlord has the same right as the tenant in regard of opening a case if she is at fault. She pointed this out to him. He hasn't opened any case I wonder why? I'd guess it's because he hasn't a leg to stand on and he knows it.

This case is the tenants, there will be no bad outcome for her. She is willing to go through the courts after any determination order she receives, like wise she will go through the courts to stop any eviction because as you say, over the current climate.

Not necessarily you, but I'd guess there is a lot of landlords posting here or members with family as landlords.

The tenant is a good tenant with no rent arrears and the landlord is a bully or tried to be til he was put back in his box. And yet you have people on here trying to put the tenant off, that won't happen anyway. But that's how it appears. This bully of a landlord will learn his lesson this time. All legally of course.

sportsfan90 · 31-10-2021 7:58am

I wont comment on the likelihood of getting a partial rent refund or not because I've no experience in those matters.

But I'm amazed they let the HAP begin in the first place in any house that doesn't meet their requirements?

Wolftown · 31-10-2021 8:22am

I'd be thinking the tenant will be evicted regardless of pursuing compensation from the landlord.

Landlord just needs to give valid notice, which he/she will definitely do considering the hassle caused.

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096680#Comment_118096680

Not as simple as that. He then needs a determination order and then he needs the tenant to abide by it if not the circuit court has to make a ruling which can take 18 months to two years. Definitely not as simple as you think.

PalLimerick · 31-10-2021 9:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096657#Comment_118096657

It takes up to 8 months and longer during covid for a HAP inspection to take place after the lease begins.

sportsfan90 · 31-10-2021 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096722#Comment_118096722

Yes but you mentioned that it was promised at the very start, so was it not in breach of HAP requirements at the beginning of the lease?

I don't understand why they would allow HAP lease to begin in a property that didn't meet standards from Day 1?

airy fairy · 31-10-2021 9:24am

So the tenant waited 4.5 years to have it out with the landlird to have works done outside the house?

Why didn't the tenant move if it was causing an issue? Why didn't the tenant bring a case in 4.5 years to rtb?

I don't think the tenant will get a payment for this, or a free stay. At the end of the day, regardless of the length of waiting for court hearing, she will be told to leave. She has no idea if the landlord can afford to do the works and he will possibly claim he cannot afford works and needs to sell to recoup losses. A simple affidavit and an auctioneer contract will be produced in court.

Threshold have a habit of telling tenants to stop paying rent, I would advise her to continue to pay it, it'll go against her and if this were the case she may only have days to pack up after a court case is determined.

There will be no winners here, except legal teams. I'd advise her to look for another property to rent as her tenancy is ticking away now regardless.

jay1988 · 31-10-2021 9:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096767#Comment_118096767

If you had bothered reading the OP at all you would see the tenant has asked for this worked to be completed (as promised) regularly over the 4.5 years.

OP had it right, the Landlords of Boards are out in force on this one this morning.

airy fairy · 31-10-2021 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096801#Comment_118096801

What's with the attitude? Calm yourself!!!

She didn't bring a case with the rtb though did she? Which should have been the case after 4.5 years, plenty time tbf.

Not a landlord. Wouldn't wish to be.

jay1988 · 31-10-2021 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096845#Comment_118096845

No attitude at all, again if you had read the OP properly you would see the tenant had asked multiple times and was told multiple times that the work would be done, when the LL finally snapped at her and told her the work wouldn't be done and she was to leave, she raised a case with the RTB.

Amazing the amount of people here who have rowed in on the side of a LL not fulfilling his obligations.

Deeec · 31-10-2021 10:48am

What happens if the landlord genuinely cannot afford to get the outside of the property done for the tenant?

The tenant may win her case but the landlord will still want the tenant out ( and will go the legal route) to get her out. All the tenant is doing is getting herself extra time but she is also damaging her reputation as a model tenant. Is outside space really worth this hassle.

jay1988 · 31-10-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096983#Comment_118096983

Then he should have explained this at the start of the tenancy instead of promising to do it for 4 years and then losing his **** and trying to get his tenant out.

purpleshoe · 31-10-2021 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096618#Comment_118096618

I don't have an issue with tenants exercising their rights. Most of tenant rights I would support; I do, however, have an issue with tenants who don't fully appreciate what they have, and that their problems are everybody else's but theirs.

You are giving the key information in dribs and drabs over your several posts. Everything else is you have posted is just noise.

Is all this stemming from the grass not being cut?

[Deleted User] · 31-10-2021 11:13am

OP, could you give more detail of what the outside work/upkeep is? Are we just talking about cutting the grass or is it a big job they were meant to do?

airy fairy · 31-10-2021 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096957#Comment_118096957

But not only raising a case with the rtb, but also suggesting she gets a financial rebate also. That's where this case looks muddy. How do we know what was said between landlord and tenant. Perhaps she said she'd withhold rent and then LL said no way.

Fact of the matter is, this issue should have involved a paper/email trail. Rtb could have made representation on her behalf to get works done outside the house. This didn't happen. It sounds like a shouty match between the two of them and now she's looking for financial compensation or a withholding of rent. If the house was so bad, how on earth did she stick it for 4.5 years?

This case screams like the tenant wants financial gain now and nothing much to do with the state of the outside of the house.

Thoughts on this letting.

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