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Poland to be fined €1 million daily by EU for not suspending controversial 'disciplinary chamber'

  • 27-10-2021 9:19pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 741 ✭✭✭


    Did the EU not tell Ireland that VRT on cars imported from the EU was illegal. Funny I didnt see the EU pursue this issue.



«13

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Almost like they were different issues almost



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Don’t we get fined for charging VRT but the fines come in at less than the total revenue collects?

    Or is that some myth I heard ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,468 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    VRT is fine, other countries have similar taxes. Denmark for example.

    It is in no way comparable to the above.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    Imagine if we had a "disciplinary chamber" for the wayward judges handing down ridiculously soft or concurrent sentences in this country! Or their personal favorite, the dreaded 'suspended sentence' for some chap with 50 previous convictions.

    The EU seems hell bent on wiping out any form of dissenting voice or independent thought in any member state. A union of mindless zombie-like satellite states, with one giant hive mind. Ruled over by an authoritarian bullying central counsel of supreme overlords!

    Are we perhaps sleep walking into a dictatorship? But we're all great friends, that's the most important thing right? Yes, just friendly neighbors!

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,053 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ah. The usual edge anti-EU nonsense. Poland is the largest net beneficiary of EU funds. If they and the Hungarians don't like the gravy train's rules, they can get off. Noone will miss them.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Covieland


    The European Union has nothing to do with Irish judges handing down extremely soft sentences to criminals, that would be OUR justice system.

    People are quick to forget all the good the EU has done,

    It gave 500 million people the freedom to live, study or work anywhere.

    It created one of the world’s biggest single markets.

    It banished the death penalty in member states or as a condition of membership.

    It took sewage off Europe’s beaches by fining member states that pump raw sewage into river's and sea's.

    Ireland would not be as prosperous without EU membership.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Except that post isn't particularly anti-EU. It's against what the EU has evolved into...

    I'm extremely pro-EU, but at the same time, I don't like what it's becoming. It was once an economic organisation with the solid intention of protecting the interests of European countries. Now, it's trying to become the UN, making judgments and enforcing those judgments on cultural and moral issues, well beyond the economic aspects. Hell, if they were doing such a great job on the economic front, I'm perhaps be more understanding, but they haven't been doing so good for a long time now.

    Being critical of the EU doesn't make someone anti-EU.... and there may very well come a time when Ireland is punished for policies that the EU considers unacceptable. There's quite a few topics that are changing in the views of European nations which are open for conflict, especially for topics such as immigration, and citizenship. The EU could easily decide to pass judgment over such things, and would you be as dismissive then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,020 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Seriously, mate, I would not be holding Poland up as an example of a country that fosters dissenting voices and independent thought and gets punished for it. You might want to rethink this line of argument.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    "Noone will miss them"

    I do not know who this "noone" individual is you are speaking of. But I would certainly miss Poland, as they are smart hard working and decent people from my experience.

    I am not anti-EU either btw. You seem quite fond of making large sweeping assumptions of people around here.

    I think the EU is an imperfect union. It is in need of massive reforms in order to be a viable entity going forward. Brexit should have been a big moment for introspection for the rest of us in this union. But instead many people buried their heads in the sand, and are just content to paint the UK as this horrible backward racist country.

    You can see the same tired rhetoric developing with Poland and Hungary too. Anyone who steps out of line, or dares to see the world in a slightly different way is painted as being some sort of nuisance.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,788 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The Germans would miss them. Germany makes more money in exports to Poland, than the total subsidies Poland receives annually.

    Almost as if the subsidies are just to prop up demand for German goods - surely not, surely the biggest country in EU wouldnt do something like that..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    I do not know who this "noone" individual is you are speaking of. But I would certainly miss Poland, as they are smart hard working and decent people from my experience. 

    I am not anti-EU either btw. You seem quite fond of making large sweeping assumptions of people around here.

    Can you see the contradiction?😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,020 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I dunno about whether Brexit "should have been a big moment for introspection for the rest of us in this union", but in many ways it's had the opposite effect. Brexit has become the Awful Example; in every single member state support for EU membership is higher now than it was before Brexit, and support for leaving or for those who advocate leaving is lower. Brexit has made threatening to leave, or planning to leave, a less viable option than it appeared to be a few years back.

    Which is not to say that Brexit shouldn't be a cause for introspection, but the question most people will be inclined to ponder is not so much "where did the EU go wrong?" as "how could a country like the UK be reduced to this?"

    Reflecting on that question leads to an appreciate of the dangers of populism and illiberalism, and the conclusion most people come to is pretty much the opposite of "the EU should ignore low standards of democracy in countries like Poland and Hungary".



  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Marcos


    Ah don't mind this kind of pigeonholing and name calling anything that contradicts their worldview; anyone that expresses anything that discomforts them is guilty of heresy and must be punished whether it's an individual or in this case a country or countries. Such illiberal behaviour, ironically from those who believe that they are truly liberal.

    The EU lost a lot of standing when the French and then the Dutch rejected attempts to foist an EU constitution on them, as most people there were perfectly happy with the way things were, something that the mandarins in Brussels and Strasbourg didn't foresee. So they came up with the Lisbon treaty to try and introduce it in a slightly different way but that came with unintended consequences like Brexit. The same mandarins and their followers don't want any opposition or any criticism at all. What will their followers here do if or when the EU says that there should be one immigration policy in all states so Ireland would have to follow EU rules and stop their de facto open borders policy?

    Poland and Hungary are next in the firing line and that's perfectly fine with some on here.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Absolute myth. We haven't been told its illegal either, because it isn't.

    Frequently repeated by people who oppose it, but complete nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,433 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    More countries will be considering leaving or starting rows for a very fundamental and simple reason - sovereignty.

    The EU as an entity is now firmly clashing with the sovereignty of the countries in it.

    This is a dangerous thing particularly in a European context but it's been coming for 20 years. More Europe, more Europe, more Europe...

    Either there is real reappraisal of what the EU is and should be (a trading block without the political institutions and symbols) or it will all end in tears sooner or later.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And quite clearly, we can see the incompatibility between EU Membership and Democracy.

    Poland escaped communist control, only then to hand that liberated power to unelected old men in Brussels.

    Poland now sees the EU as Communism Mark II - and they're right; power centralised at the centre, and unaccounted power, too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    You don't understand anything about the need for Independence of the Judiciary and separation of powers in Government.

    Here the E.U. are serving the interests of the Citizens of Poland better than their own populist Politicians.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's not the job of the EU, that's the job of the Polish electorate.

    You can agree or disagree with said electorate, but ignoring electorates in favour of an unelected, appointed EU Commission is a dangerous path to follow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,433 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    That is not the job of the EU. It is up to Poland and Poland alone to decide who and how they are governed as with every other country.

    Your post demonstrates perfectly the problem with EU supporters. They don't understand how offensive and undemocratic they actually are.

    It is not up to Brussels to decide how any country should be governed or what's good for them.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are displaying your ignorance. It is one of the Copenhagen Criteria which are conditions for membership of the E.U.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Perhaps Poland should reconsider their membership of the European Union.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    PiS can ask the Citizens of Poland. They'll find themselves out of Government in double quick time.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,053 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The EU is incompatible with democracy? Prove it.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,502 ✭✭✭Raichu


    As is their right.

    however, if Brexit is any example, that would be a very bad idea.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The EU Commission, who wield the lion's share of the power and who are the sole body to propose legislation, are appointed.

    How would you feel if, rather than having an elected Irish Government, the entire cabinet was appointed and each member of that cabinet could not be directly removed via the democratic process?

    I wouldn't be happy.

    The EU have gotten away with it because Brussels feels very distant. When we apply the EU principles of "democracy" closer to home, we would never accept it.

    In fact, Jean-Claude Juncker had to lose an election in his home country before he was appointed as a member of the EU Commission.

    If that's not antithetical to democracy, I don't know what is.

    And this kind of EU bullying of Poland will not be tolerated; of that I'm sure.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Appointed after...? How does that work? Based on your previous contributions I expect you are not particularly familiar with how it works and how Autocrats can't elbow their way in to those positions of influence.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Council of the EU nominates Commissioners - with approval from the EU President.

    The system is set up to ensure that only "the right kind of Commissioner" makes their way to the top; where they can propose legislation for the EU 27.

    Again, this is not a system we would adopt in our own country precisely because we can see how manipulative and anti-democratic (and corrupt) it can become.

    It's no different at the higher level of the European Union.

    Appointed Commissioners, who do not have to face a direct electorate, are antithetical to democracy.

    What's more is that, once appointed, they cannot be removed via the democratic system.

    In fact, in 2015, Jean-Claude Juncker said, "...there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties".

    Don't take my word for it, listen to those at the very heart of this necrotic system.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are toxic. Your profile picture of Nigel Farage is appropriate.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Attacking the man and not the ball is the weakest form of argument.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    The EU is taking action against Poland for setting up a mechanism to effectively punish judges for rendering judgements which the government just doesn't like - a mechanism which is incompatible with the fundamental principle of separation of legislature and judiciary.

    It's a bit silly to be so blindly anti-EU to the point that you'd take Poland's side on this. It's real 'the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend' territory.



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