Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

20silkcut · 25-09-2021 8:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936278#Comment_117936278

after the vaccine debacle the government here would want to be very wary. The Tories would have no qualms about nabbing our HGV drivers or drivers destined for here. The EU need to counter any attempts to nab drivers as the Tories would take great pleasure at leaving the EU short of drivers for their own gain.

Cody montana · 25-09-2021 9:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936488#Comment_117936488

Do you think they’ll implement the checks soon?

It would just add to the chaos.

eternalblame · 25-09-2021 10:08am

"Heat or Eat", could be the choice for many with rocketing fuel and food costs.

Nody · 25-09-2021 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936488#Comment_117936488

It's already been confirmed as postponed to January 2022 (and I don't see that date going live either...).

Christy42 · 25-09-2021 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936331#Comment_117936331

Indeed. That is what the temporary visa for HGV drivers is aimed at. Of course they are saying that this is a Europe wide problem so are effectively asking for drivers to come from an area they claim does not have drivers....

ancapailldorcha · 25-09-2021 11:53am

Apparently, the petrol station at the Asda beside my house has shut down.

The flaw in the visas for HGV drivers idea is that they actually want to come back when the shortage also exists in Europe. There was a hefty xenophobic element to the Brexit campaign and now there are severe delays at the border. These issues don't exist in Europe so it's hard to see the visa attracting many people.

20silkcut · 25-09-2021 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936278#Comment_117936278

How much incentive is there for a European truck driver to deliver direct to Ireland via Cherbourg . It’s a long trip and would there be much opportunities for bringing a load back from here?

surely the likes of the Dairy/ meat industry would have plenty of loads going to go direct to Europe.

Sam Russell · 25-09-2021 12:43pm

The Cherbourg - Rosslaire route lends itself to shipping just the trailer and a different driver takes it after it lands. It saves 24 hours of HGV driver time, and 500 km of fuel.

With the current situation in the UK, I would have thought there was no real disadvantage for much of the freight coming from or going to Europe.

listermint · 25-09-2021 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936928#Comment_117936928

Erm.. the haulage firms here are inside the SM and CU and would have those operations sown up both sides so this isn't a case of random EU truck driver. The EU truck driver works for the Irish haulier without the restrictions across the water.

Strazdas · 25-09-2021 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936919#Comment_117936919

The Brexiteers are still banging on about 'EU workers driving down UK wages' and apparently many within the Cabinet are very unhappy with the idea of offering temporary visas to EU workers - they see it as a fundamental breach of Brexit.

It's difficult to see how they can make their visa scheme work against this backdrop. Still talking about EU citizens being a burden and making it clear they are unwelcome.

RobMc59 · 25-09-2021 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937178#Comment_117937178

Having spoken to a number of British hgv drivers on this subject they maintain wages for UK drivers were rising at a reasonable rate until an influx of mainly Eastern European drivers who were attracted by the pay in comparison to their own countries.Now the majority of them have returned to their own countries through a combination of brexit and covid.The proposed relaxation of visa rules obviously isn't sufficient incentive to return to the UK imo(I also heard stories of how poorly many of the EU drivers were treated,poor facilities compared to the Continent).

I have also heard haulage companies are that desperate they are offering eye watering incentives/salaries.

To me,as a British person,the most important thing coming out of all this is it appears that its dawning on the public(and even UK press) that all this is mainly a result of brexit.

listermint · 25-09-2021 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937307#Comment_117937307

On the flip side. Same UK HGV drivers are no over worked, retiring and suffering from the same loss of goods that everyone else is suffering from . Cracking a nut with a lump hammer as they say ..

breezy1985 · 25-09-2021 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937307#Comment_117937307

Wages were increasing across the board in jobs that both attracted and didn't attract migrant workers. We had a boom in the 90s followed by a bust which is why wages went up then stopped.

These HGV drivers you say you spoke to are only regurgitating the usual nonsense of having to find some enemy to blame

Strazdas · 25-09-2021 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937307#Comment_117937307

Any fall in wages was caused solely by UK employers. The EU migrant workers didn't decide their pay rates. As ever, there seems to be a hint of blaming the EU or EU citizens for the actions of greedy / lousy British employers.

The Brexiteers thinking that leaving the EU would somehow 'solve' the problems doesn't appear to be working out either. It seems the entire British haulage industry was run badly for many years, both by the hauliers themselves and by the British government.

RobMc59 · 25-09-2021 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937407#Comment_117937407

The UK drivers weren't blaming other drivers,they appeared to blame the companies for wage stagnation and mentioned how poor the facilities are/were here for drivers,especially compared to the Continent,which is hardly an incentive to EU drivers.

I wouldn't see a relaxing of visa rules as an instant remedy anyway even if lucrative salaries are being offered,any increase in drivers would probably take months.I wouldn't be surprised if the possibility of army drivers isn't being explored.

breezy1985 · 25-09-2021 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937665#Comment_117937665

Nope you clearly insinuated that they blamed an influx of EU drivers and I am obviously not the only one picked up on that.

God help the British pedestrian if the army are involved given their history of collateral damage

RobMc59 · 25-09-2021 2:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937683#Comment_117937683

It's not the fault of EU drivers if salaries are better in the UK compared to their own .

I'd also say(as much as it pains me)I hope the situation remains a problem the rest of the year and affects Christmas because that's the only way people will turn on the tories.

breezy1985 · 25-09-2021 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937720#Comment_117937720

You are such an untrustworthy poster. These drivers you claim to have talked to blame an influx of EU drivers so stop trying to go back on what you said

ancapailldorcha · 25-09-2021 3:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937178#Comment_117937178

I don't buy it. The drive down wages thing is a fiction to justify hostility and xenophobia. It's literally the only context where conservatives seem to care about wages. The toilet paper submarine that is Brexit has just been deployed and it's showing the resilience you'd expect. They're in for a rough ride.

It still gets me that people voting to eliminate their own rights at the behest of kleptocrats is something that has not just happened here but been defended constantly.

Strazdas · 25-09-2021 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937840#Comment_117937840

It's definitely a peculiar argument. How many people in Britain have been 'directly' impacted by large numbers of eastern European workers driving down their own wages? It sounds like a concocted excuse to hate on the EU and European workers by xenophobes not even impacted by any of it.

ancapailldorcha · 25-09-2021 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937931#Comment_117937931

It's simple, easy to understand and provides a nice veil for xenophobia. The same people were then outraged when they had to get a petty visa to go to their villas.

RobMc59 · 25-09-2021 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937931#Comment_117937931

The drivers I've spoken to work for either Hoyer(German company) or Bertschi(Swiss company) which would rule out 'hating on the EU or European workers by xenophobes' I'd say.

mick087 · 25-09-2021 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937720#Comment_117937720

Lets hope the they do turn on the UK's elected government, i already think the tide is on its way out for Boris.

Also its highlighting a another important role of low paid workers that are treated dreadful.

Strazdas · 25-09-2021 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938017#Comment_117938017

My point would be the numbers. How many people in the UK would be 'directly' affected by the phenomenon of their wages being forced down because of EU migrant workers.....are we talking well under 1% of the workforce? Seems it's just being used as an excuse by the usual suspects to attack the EU. It could only be happening in very specific industries that attract migrant workers in large numbers such as haulage and farm work.

breezy1985 · 25-09-2021 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938017#Comment_117938017

You think that working for EU companies stop people from being Brexiters or xenophobic ?

I have met people who were foreign or had foreign parents/partners/children who were xenophobic Brexiters never mind being smart enough to have the critical thinking to realize they work for an EU company

silverharp · 25-09-2021 5:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117937616#Comment_117937616

its more complicated then that surely, firstly labour is always demand and supply, you would only need to look at the construction industry to figure that out, secondly if talking about trucking then in this case UK employers were and still are competing against German and Polish companies for example.

Look on the bright side, A HGV driver can now earn more than a NHS diversity manager 😄 so good in this case to see useful blue collar and difficult work being rewarded

ancapailldorcha · 25-09-2021 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117938324#Comment_117938324

Is it? Do you have evidence for this?

Capt'n Midnight · 25-09-2021 10:00pm

How exactly will 5,000 temporary visas will solve the ~ 100,000 driver shortage when there's people leaving the industry and loads heading for retirement. They are doing a U-turn which will cause conflict but still won't touch on the problem. And no, self driving trucks are nowhere near ready for use on the roads.

New Freight Trends Emerge as 71% of all Republic of Ireland RoRo Traffic is Now Unaccompanied - also other changes, like less NI-UK traffic going through Dublin "ROI – GB traffic now accounts 67% of ROI volumes, compared to 84% two years ago." While the % to Europe has doubled.

Strazdas · 25-09-2021 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939453#Comment_117939453

I saw one haulage expert suggest they'll be lucky to get 1000 or 2000 drivers taking them up on the visa offer.

Strazdas · 25-09-2021 11:19pm

The visas are for only three months duration and end on Christmas Eve :

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1441877863498719237

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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