Religion and Engaging with the Teacher

karlitob · 22-09-2021 8:31pm #1

hi teachers

Question: what advice could you kindly offer me as to the best way to approach my child’s teacher about religion in the classroom.

background: it’s a religious primary school, normal enough stuff. She’s in senior infants now. Our family is atheist. Last year we didn’t bring this up for obvious reasons. But we don’t want her praying, being taught anything religious, or anything like that. Neither do we want her singled out and ostracised in the class.

would really appreciate your help on the best way to approach things. Her teacher is great and she’s really enjoying school.

Jim_Hodge · 22-09-2021 8:34pm

It's far from an uncommon situation. Just arrange to meet the teacher and explain your concerns. You won't be the first case in most schools.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925991#Comment_117925991

While I agree in general, I kinda wonder at this school.

i will arrange - I’m just looking for pointers and any insights from those who’ve been through it - from both ends, parents and teachers.

SouthWesterly · 22-09-2021 8:40pm

Mine don't do religion along with probably 25% of the class.

They just colour or read. Doesn't mean their not listening but it's doing them no harm

karlitob · 22-09-2021 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926033#Comment_117926033

Thanks for that. Disagree with the harm bit though.

SouthWesterly · 22-09-2021 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926057#Comment_117926057

If you can't be open to understand what other people believe then you should homeschool

pooch90 · 22-09-2021 8:52pm

Teacher and also parent to a JI opting out of RE. (also disagree with the no harm thing)

It's honestly not an issue opting them out at all. We have all dealt with kids opting out. I'd explain what you'd rather the child do during this time so they aren't just sitting there bored for 30 mins. Maybe even say you'd provide little books like join the dots (good for fine motor skills) or extra handwriting/phonics/maths. Have a plan before you chat.

Actually, have you spoken to your child about it? I'm wondering how to broach it with my little fella. We just kinda threw him into school without so much as telling him what god means!

karlitob · 22-09-2021 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926068#Comment_117926068

The purpose of this thread is not to an ecumenical or philosophical one. Nor is it one to attack me unfairly. You said it does no harm, I disagreed. You then decided to say that I’m not open to understanding what other people believe and then how I should educate my child. I’ll educate my child in anyway I see fit - the exact same as you. I don’t believe in a religion who’s major tenet is vicarious redemption through gruesome human sacrifice, nor do I wish for the urgent end of the universe and Armageddon so that I may be judged by the son of a god, who is also a god. It seems you don’t either.

I think it’s harmful to teach my child that s/he was born with sin purely by being born. And only pouring water on your head by a lad with a dog collar can mean you’re lucky enough to go to some place that’s made up.

Regardless, are you telling me that religion in senior infants is a study of world religions in the spirit of open mindedness - or faith formation in the ‘ethos’ of the school.

Thanks for your input

karlitob · 22-09-2021 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926091#Comment_117926091

Thanks for that. Good points I’ll take on board. Thank you.

Yeah I’m struggling with that also. She has mentioned god. And she’s started putting her hands together. I find it incredibly upsetting to see such a small little person being inculcated into a cult at such an early age. I know the background to education and religion in ireland - I’m not naive to it. I think religion is a personal thing that should be kept at home. She saw all the communion dresses today and of course, all talk about it.

but I tell her there is no god (obviously). I tell her it’s make believe. And it’s just no different to fairies or unicorns.

pooch90 · 22-09-2021 9:20pm

Yeah, I want to teach him about being respectful but that it's just not what we believe but others do, and that's fine. It's just not for me and daddy. He loves science so we might work that angle....

It also puts me in a **** position being a teacher in another school, teaching something I don't believe.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926253#Comment_117926253

I just don’t know how you do it. I really don’t. It must be so hard - on the inside, you know.

Is it still illegal for schools to discriminate against hiring gay teachers?

orecir · 22-09-2021 9:26pm

Surely you should let your child decide themselves. If they want to participate then let them and if not then ask the school for them to do something else during RE.

A very narrow minded and intolerant view here by many.

SouthWesterly · 22-09-2021 9:27pm

[quote] Thanks for your input [/quote]

You don't really mean that 😁

starlady1 · 22-09-2021 9:40pm

If you don't want your child taught anything religious you need to be aware your child is in (I assume) a catholic school and most of the other children will be doing religion. You need to decide if you are opting your child out of religion what they will do during religion time.

You can pick another subject e.g. maybe English or SESE, or at that age fine motor skills, handwriting etc. Your child must be able to do this work independently while the other children do religion.

You need to ask the teacher for a meeting to discuss the above but first decide exactly what you want for your child during religion time if they are to opt out.

Interestingly I have seen children of other nationalities and other faiths participate in all religion classes etc but they just don't take part in sacrements. They still completed the religion book and did work in copies. This may be an option for you but of course you can also opt out completely if you wish.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926294#Comment_117926294

Haha. Should I let my four year - who hasn’t yet learn to read or write - decide whether or not she wishes to be inculcated into the Catholic religion. The one that happens to be the majority of religious beliefs in the country of her birth. Or - in the spirit of ‘letter her decide’ - perhaps I should ask her whether she wants to believe in Islam and teach her that a Middle Ages Arab warrior who married a 6 year old girl and flew into heaven on a fiery winged chariot. And that’s before the other religions.

Are you really serious that you expect a four year to ‘decide for themselves’ what religion they wish to believe OR NONE and what they - according to the religious people - what they will do with their souls for eternity.

don’t be silly. Sure when did you ‘decide’. When my child gets to an age that she does understand and wants to believe in fairies and unicorns then I’ll happily support her.

As with most unthinking religious people, their problem is that the start the engagement with believing that there is a god, and the atheist are wrong. They forget that we both have the same evidence for the existence of a god, but you choose to believe despite the lack of it, and I don’t.

and when I highlight their belief system - like I did above - and they don’t like it….they call me ‘narrow minded’ and ‘intolerant’. So yes I am intolerant of any religion that professes creation as fact rather than mythology; that human sacrifice as a means of redemption, that anyone can be risen from the dead, that any child any human is born a sinner, that human bodies can assume into another dimension of existence, that virgins can bear children, that bushes burning in the desert can speak, the the value system is written on a tablet by a god and only given to one lad (and one of those values is against thougth crime), that the end of the world will be the second coming of gods son, who is also a god, and that death snd destruction will come onto the unworthy - yeah, I’m intolerant of that and much more. I wear your attempt at shutting down an engagement by trying to label me with phrases such an intolerant with pride.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926396#Comment_117926396

Thank you for this. Good points that I wills prepare for.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 9:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926306#Comment_117926306

No - I did for you taking the time on your first post.

Not for your personal attack on me on the second post.

listermint · 22-09-2021 9:54pm

OP you are incredibly confrontational and tbh really aggressive sounding in this thread. I too am non religious and so are my kids. They weren't brought up in Catholic tradition like I and my wife were. We married outside of any church.

But your attitude stinks . I fully accept should my child go to a religious school that they may here things and engage with classmates on aspects of faith and I hope they fully respect and under other people's beliefs.

What ever you do when speaking to the teacher please leave the attitude at the door no one needs to hear that stuff in their job. The teacher is just doing their job. Keep it civil and very short and don't go down your rabbit hole explanations.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926505#Comment_117926505

I don’t care about your opinion on how I respond to other people who call me close minded or intolerant; and that I should home school my child because i respectfully disagreed with religious instruction being harmful.

I don’t care that you think my responses are aggressive - that’s your view, not one that I share, and one that’s not true,

If you read a little more carefully - rather than trying to be some form of arbiter of my posts - you will see that I responded robustly to those who took to personal responses and name calling; and you’ll see mine all detail the many beliefs of those posters who - instead of doubling down on their beliefs ….the same ones they expect my child to listen to….attack me.

And if you read even more carefully - you’ll see that I how respectfully I spoke with an actual teacher on this thread.

So - with the same sincerity as I gave to the other poster - thanks for your input.

SouthWesterly · 22-09-2021 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926478#Comment_117926478

Sorry you think it was a personal attack. It was nothing of the sort, just my opinion as having my kids in an RC school and not being RC. If you don't want them being exposed to the ethos of the school then you really need to reconsider the type of schooling you want for your child.

What do you want to happen, the child stand outside the door when the class say their prayers at the start of the day?

If you don't want the ethos of a school effecting your child, then homeschooling is your only choice.

Princess Calla · 22-09-2021 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926437#Comment_117926437

I clicked into this thread as we are not bringing up our children in a religious faith so I was curious to read the replies.

Jesus Christ though if you are so against religion why the hell did you send them to a religious school.

Mine are in a religious school they could have gone to an educated together school but I'm abit ambivalent about the situation, they won't be taking the sacraments but I don't really care if they are exposed and have same knowledge about religion as their peers.

This is not the case for you so I don't understand why you would send them to a school that is completely against your belief system.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926605#Comment_117926605

Apology accepted.

I pay my taxes like everyone else. My child is entitled to the same education like everyone else.

It is also illegal and unconstitutional for my child not to be supported to opt out of religious education. So I disagree - and find offensive - how you come to the conclusion that I should take my child out of school and home school them instead.

ForestFire · 22-09-2021 10:11pm

To be honest, I don't know what to say I'm so appalled with what reading from the OP here.

Did you seriously tell your 7 year old daughter that unicorns do not exist!

(age guess based on class)

Talk about a kill joy....... :-)

on a more serious note...

I do agree with what some others have said. Asking to be left out of direct engagement is fine, expecting to be shielded from what else happens around them is not feasible or practical, to expect the catholic school you enrolled in, to be able to accommodate.

Treppen · 22-09-2021 10:11pm

Word of warning op. A colleague was adamant in pushing the "there is no god" line on their daughter, and micromanaging every thought she had after the days religion class through the 13 years in education.

As true as eggs are eggs the daughter got sick of it and rebelled, she's now a fervent promoter of the faith in her own life, local community and primary school teaching career.

Jeremy Sproket · 22-09-2021 10:16pm

Religion is a deeply personal affair. It should be removed from schools and not taught there. If parents feel so strongly about the sacraments, then they should arrange with each other to have Communion and Confirmation preparatory courses outside of school.

I say this as someone who believes in God (my dad is Lutheran and my mam is CoI). We attended Lutheran services in Sweden and CoI services here. We're not strict about our "flavour" of Christianity.

SouthWesterly · 22-09-2021 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926632#Comment_117926632

Seems you just want to be offended and choose to ignore that an ethos of any school will effect your child. Even if it's educate together, they will still teach about all religions.

You seem to detest religion to such an extent that I can't understand why you would expose your child to a school who has a religious ethos.

You are quiet within your rights to homeschool.

So what do you actually want the school to do to accommodate your hatred of their ethos?

listermint · 22-09-2021 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926601#Comment_117926601

If you don't care. Then why open a bloody thread asking for advice on what way to handle it.

Off the wall friend.

With the level of vitriol you have I'd suggest homeschooling was probably the better options but for the sake of the kids probably an educate together. But... Shock horror they learn about different faiths there too !

Mad I know we have to share this earth with people of different opinions and faiths to ourselves. Respect goes all ways, even if I have a distaste for the church and it's teachings.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 10:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926616#Comment_117926616

I made the point already. There are NO other schools in the area. All schools are oversubscribed. 92% of all primary schools are Catholic.

karlitob · 22-09-2021 10:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926637#Comment_117926637

Haha. No - not unicorns. Just god.

Yeah - I know. Only Israel spends more time on faith formation in Ireland. I just can’t believe that so much effort goes into forcing children to believe in a god and religion that the whole country criticises.

If only they could just teach children the curricula and leave religion to the parents and churches.

[Deleted User] · 22-09-2021 10:26pm

Any chance of sending your child to a non religious school OP?

billyhead · 22-09-2021 10:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926437#Comment_117926437

We get your point about being an atheist and anti religion but you don't need to glorify it. If your that keen and desperate for your child to not be involved in religious studies there's no point coming on here looking for advice and opinions. Discuss it with the teacher or school principal or if that doesn't succeed as suggested move your child to an alternative school.

Religion and Engaging with the Teacher

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