Joe Rogan downplays the need for a vaccination and gets covid

03-09-2021 6:12am

It's a real pity that Ivermectin doesn't seem to do much.

Plenty of people are kept alive with medications designed for completely other purposes; anti-malarials for people with immune system problems for example. There's an incredulity regarding this topic as the majority of people don't understand how often off-label medication is used.

"Anti-malarials for an immume system disorder when we don't even have mosquitoes? No way I'm taking that nonsense." is what you'd get if lupus was as politicised and in the news as Covid is.

It seems long Covid is a lot to do with the immune system and triggering these problems, so you're going to have a lot of these off-label medications being recommending in various ways. I hope the mainstream media and divisive politics can leave the scientists and doctors to it.

03-09-2021 6:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840129#Comment_117840129

Absolutely not. My post wasn't totally directed at you. It was you and people similar to you.

"Anything that doesn't align with the "progressive" left need to be completely erased or at least insulted and labelled far right or a bigot"

The fact that you call me a bigot proves my point.

To you, a bigot is someone you disagree with or hold views you disagree with that you just lazily label as bigoted or some sort of -ist.

Brian? · 03-09-2021 7:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840236#Comment_117840236

Why the stupid jokes? I’m not calling you a bigot, I’m trying to engage in debate.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 7:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840320#Comment_117840320

Except it isn't. The ramblings of whatever latest internet expert you've dug up doesn't change that.

03-09-2021 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840504#Comment_117840504

I stand by that. I'm not cowering away from my statement about Brian being fast and loose with the word bigot.

My claim was that people who have a similar outlook at worst want to shut things down, and at best just insult people by calling them bigots.

Not sure what you mean?

Brian describes me as a bigot, a label I wholeheartedly refute. I think that he uses the word too easily and cheapens it.

sydthebeat · 03-09-2021 7:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840450#Comment_117840450

Its this selfishness when you think "the risks only to myself" that causes the virus to spread wider, for longer, and mutate.

Don't be selfish, it's not a good personality trait.

Brian? · 03-09-2021 8:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840486#Comment_117840486

bigot:

a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

I don’t play “fast and loose” with the word bigot, I use it correctly .

You deciding I want to shut down discussion because I’m left wing is bigotry. Your anti trans rants are bigotry. Bigot =/= racist, which is the way most people use it these days

03-09-2021 8:20am

Brian, that exact definition could easily be labelled at you. Then you would bring up that the intolerance paradox.

The fact is that the way the term bigot is used is exceptionally subjective. The people you want Rogan to call out are bigots to you, but not bigots to others. Rogan offers a platform where he allows people to speak freely without being challenged (on the most part) and I think that is fantastic.

I don't particularly like rogan. I don't find him interesting and his interjections on his podcast are my least favourite part. There is a lot to be said to let people speak freely, without interruption or challenge and let their words speak for themselves.

Your issue with Rogan is that he enables (what you refer to as) bigots by not challenging them. Why would he? He isn't as knowledgeable as his guests. Let them speak and let the listeners make up their own minds.

I disagree with you on many topics. Many. You claim the high ground saying that you are only intolerant of intolerance but again, that, again, can be claimed against you. Would you be ok or in agreement with people labelling you a bigot?

I didn't say YOU want to shut down discussion or silence people, but not an insignificant proportion of people who think like you would. You are at the lower end of the scale.

I don't have anti trans rants. I am of the firm belief, based on facts, that a biological man can't be a woman (and vice versa) and when questioned, I will defend my stance. It's not a rant.

But that's for another thread.

c.p.w.g.w · 03-09-2021 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840521#Comment_117840521

https://www.who.int/tdr/news/2018/moxidectin-approved-as-treatment-for-river-blindness/en/

Have a look at those, and tell me it's not use to treat humans

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841218#Comment_117841218

Irrelevant unless it's clinically effective at treating covid.

c.p.w.g.w · 03-09-2021 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841237#Comment_117841237

Moving the goalposts...

I said it was disingenuous to call invermectin a de worming medicine thus implying it wasn't for human use...but it clearly is ...I never said it was an effective medicine for covid...my issue is the whole misrepresentation of Ivermectin as only a veterinarian medicine as the stanch is wholly unscientific and wholly inflammatory

03-09-2021 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840396#Comment_117840396

Choice is one thing, but that seems to equate to an expectation that you should be free from all criticism for making a moronic choice or just ignoring all facts, or choosing to believe a load of nonsense on some social media platform.

The problem I’m seeing in the USA in particular is one of inability to distinguish between opinion, beliefs and facts. They’re placing the same weight on random people's beliefs and ramblings as scientific facts.

The scientific method, an ability to use a process of logical steps to get beyond those belief biases was basically what took humanity out of the dark ages at various times. When you wander into a society that is based on rumour and superstition, that melts away very fast.

You have a whole lot of people who want to just bury their heads in the sand and become politically annoyed with reality or find some convenient idea that makes it all go away, by just ignoring the rather unpalatable reality that we have to deal with a pandemic.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841254#Comment_117841254

Nonsense. It's not remotely disingenuous and you know it. I never said it couldn't be used in humans.

elefant · 03-09-2021 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841254#Comment_117841254

That's not disingenuous - it is deworming medicine. It's anti-parasitic. That's obviously in no way like saying the potassium in bananas is the same as the potassium used in potassium cyanide.

Your average American with no health insurance and a low level of education is buying veterinary paste. It needs to be made clear to them that Invermectin is medicine for parasites, such as worms in animals. To do otherwise is disingenuous.

Ush1 · 03-09-2021 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840135#Comment_117840135

You don't half love labels.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 11:36am

I spent a sizeable portion of my childhood working with sheep and remember my parents keeping Ivermectin amongst many things that were necessary to ensure a healthy flock. The overreaction when any sort of American conservative gets any sort of criticism is always weird to see.

Ush1 · 03-09-2021 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841380#Comment_117841380

Joe Rogans a conservative? I've never know a conservative to be so fond of psychedelic drugs.

03-09-2021 11:42am

Well, you’ll end up treating your scabies and roundworm problems, but by the looks of it it’ll do very little for COVID and the formulations and doses being sold are intended for topical application to horses in many cases.

Most don’t seem to be comprehending how difficult it is to kill or disrupt a virus using chemical agents. It’s not very likely that some random old drug like this will have any impact at all.

If you look at antiviral agents, they are typically very complex and target a specific protein, enzyme or receptor.

The likelihood of some old, simple medication having any impact on a virus would have worse odds than winning the euromillions three weeks in a row.

There has been progress in managing some of the issues like fibrosis of lungs abs so on, using pretty old fashioned steroids, but those are about managing immune reactions and are only useful in the context of someone who’s been hospitalised.

If something emerges as drug for treating or preventing COVID it’s almost certainly going to have to be something developed specifically for that purpose, designed to target some aspect of the virus, its entry or reproduction mechanisms.

We hopefully will get to that stage, but you’re not going to achieve much by eating horse dewormers, unless you have horse worms.

ohnohedidnt · 03-09-2021 11:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840530#Comment_117840530

It may not be a nice personality trait, but isn't it great that we live in a society where people are free to have varying personality traits, and make personal medical decisions.

There's people who think meat eaters are selfish despicable people, should we all stop eating meat to keep them happy? Of course not, we're free to eat what we want.

If you're not old or obese, the chances of dying from Covid are extremely low (you're more likley to die on the road), why are people trying to force vaccines especially one with a relatively high side effect profile on young healthy people, and not pressure obese people to get in shape if personal outcomes are so important?

The vaccine doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it's main benefit after 6 months is it reduces the severity of the illness. So it's down to personal outcomes, and personal responsibility, just like lots of others things you do that can kill you.

If everybody was healthy there would be less death. Look at the mortality rate in the US, the fattest country in the world. Americans have extremely high rates of all the co-morbidities that increase Covid deaths. And all those co-morbidities were managed by drugs, now they're dying from covid and the solution is .....more drugs?

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841405#Comment_117841405

If he was a liberal, I doubt there'd be people defending him here.

sydthebeat · 03-09-2021 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841415#Comment_117841415

of course its great that we have personal choice and people can choose to be selfish idiots if they want.

its hilarious watching them crying "discrimination" then when the results of those idiotic choices come home to roost for them.

people are free to be idiots, and i will fight tooth and nail for their choice to be so, but they certainly do not have a right to be free of the consequences of those idiotic decisions.

Wibbs · 03-09-2021 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841428#Comment_117841428

Nor people condeming him too.

He's the perfect American(tm). A salesman pushing his own product and doing it very well. That product is a middle of the road(for Americans) apparently "sensible"(ditto) position with some woo thrown in to fascinate the unwary, or dopey, over a wide range of water cooler topics with some interesting angles at times. He's clearly gauged the market very well.

Is he a "liberal" or "conservative"? I'd say in general he's whatever gets bums on seats and pays the bills. His personal take? I'd reckon he's a cut price libertarian. That most American of I'm all right Jack politics. He has had Bernie Sanders on and has expressed support for him and his policies more than once and Bernie would be damned near a communist for many Americans in his fanbase, so if he was always playing to the cheap seats he certainly wouldn't have gone down that road. In that he does stand out in the arena of US commentators. The vast majority regardless of "sides" pander to their fanbase and berate the "enemy". That has likely got him more fans though as American commentary can be daftly and cynically partisan.

breezy1985 · 03-09-2021 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841405#Comment_117841405

Most of those old UK prog rock bands are grumpy old conservatives now or in Eric Clapton's case always were

ohnohedidnt · 03-09-2021 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841444#Comment_117841444

Well like I said before the fading efficacy of the vaccine at reducing transmission makes the restrictions pointless in my opinion. If stopping covid deaths becomes the main goal we could ban old people, fat people and unvaccinated people from public places, but ultimately everybody is getting covid anyway, so we're just spreading it out.

If stopping death in general is the goal we should ban drinking, smoking, driving, swimming, and unhealthy food to start with.

That said, Im not crying discrimination, I think eventually logic will prevail, so I'll just wait it out.

Ush1 · 03-09-2021 12:08pm

Some people far too fixated on labels rather than what an individual actually says/does.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841490#Comment_117841490

I don't know. There's plenty of snarky remarks about metropolitan elites, conspiracy theories and the like about liberals. To be clear, I've no problem acknowledging my own giving of the short shrift to various "intellectuals" who get promoted around here.

The libertarian thing seems much more aligned with conservative values than anything else. Lower-to-no taxes, everything privatised, restrictions on abortion, bible-thumping and so on. It's not a clean fit of course.

As you've pointed out, he's smart enough not to jump full on into anything he can't easily extricate himself on and there's enough "big government" anxiety about the US to justify his promoting, directly or otherwise Ivermectin. Personally, I find the whole thing a bit disingenuous. If you're going to commit to something, do it and be straight up. There's plenty of UK politicians I dislike but at least I know their stance on things.

Wibbs · 03-09-2021 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841526#Comment_117841526

+1 and yet another idiotic thing we've imported from American "thinking". The rest of the western world has largely moved on from this woefully simplistic way of thinking politically, yet for some reason too many Irish people are buying into this bullshíte. That goes for both sides of this retarded 'Murican left/right stuff. The crazy notion that a person can hold conservative views in one area but is otherwise liberal in the rest of their politics or vice versa seems to confuse the hell out of simpletons. And lord knows we have enough simpletons.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841561#Comment_117841561

I knew very little about the guy until yesterday. I knew he has an extremely popular podcast, is a bit of a libertarian and is into MMA. None of that's cause for any sort of reaction IMO. It wasn't until he start using his influence to spread nonsense that I felt inclined to respond.

I don't think this is so much American as it is to do with algorithms on social media. You're immediately hit with an echo chamber if you search for anything at all. I googled how to do a certain lift and Youtube immediately decided that I'd be inundated with videos of hunky men. Part of it's definitely American but much of it isn't IMO.

2ndcoming · 03-09-2021 12:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838860#Comment_117838860

Only wanted to quote the bottom part. What he is representative of is the cult of individualism that is perfect for the hyper capitalist world being forged by all the major tech / social media corporations. Independent thought is only useful if you are qualified to make judgement on something. Knowing that is an independent thought worth retaining, ironically. Giving platforms to others engaged in the same 'promotion of individualism for profit' model doesn't make you fair or clever, it makes you a dishonest a55hole. The ego-driven cult of 'my opinion is worth as much as anyone's, regardless of the topic' is absolutely asinine and flies in the face of all learned human knowledge amassed over thousands of years.

Unless you are an epidemiologist, immunologist or at the very least a medical doctor your opinion is not worth a damn in the treatment / control of a pandemic, just like unless you are an astrophysicist / nuclear engineer your opinion on space travel is not worth a damn or on the other end of the scale unless you are a plumber your opinion on building a waste water system in a house is not worth a damn. These tools have idiots around the world in their millions jacked up on their own egos and inflated sense of self-importance along with all the "be the centre of your own universe" life coaches and influencers and The Secret and all this other bullsh1t peddled to morons who lack the analytical thinking to see them for the grifts they are, and it is having a devastating effect on society in America at least, either through needless death to covid or hyper-partisan politics and 'culture wars'. It's honestly depressing to see and you have to be fearful of the spread.

irishguitarlad · 03-09-2021 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841490#Comment_117841490

To be fair he's gone off a cliff since the move to spotify and has started spouting an immense amount of garbage.

Joe Rogan downplays the need for a vaccination and gets covid

Comments