Multi species swards

Pinsnbushings · 20-06-2021 4:17pm #1

I thought I might start a thread on multi species as interest seems to be growing in them another article in the journal this week. Maybe lads who have some on there farms or are thinking of experimenting could post how they are getting on.
I've attached pictures of my own attempt below. The cows grazed this yesterday. It was sown last august, sprayed off with roundup and mcpa.power harrowed and sown with 1 pass.. Got 2.5 bags 10/10/20 and 2t lime at sowing.
Grazed with the calves once and 1 grazing with the cows last year.
This is it's 4th grazing this year. Got 3/4 bag urea after first round and a bag of pasture sward after 2nd round.notging since.
The plantain and clover are dominating the sward this round with some chicory the grass looks hungry.woild like to be getting slurry out now. I'm thinking of putting a bag of 0/7/30 on it aswell.
Jury still out but thought I'd open the discussion on it

funkey_monkey · 21-06-2021 10:01am

Really interested in this thread. Funnily enough I had started something similar yesterday in relation to grass management. What seed mix did you use on this?

jimmy G M · 21-06-2021 11:38am

Yeah, i'd be interested in this thread also. Trying to get some clover into the ground here on the cheap so mixed 10kg of clover seed into a slatted tank of slurry and spread onto 10 acres a few days after silage taken off almost 3 weeks ago. Be interesting to see the result, ideal conditions at the time and afterwards, moisture and warmth, but dare I say it, ground is gone very dry here now.....

Pinsnbushings · 21-06-2021 11:41am

I just saw your other thread there now dunno maybe they should be merged or keep this 1 for multi species and the other for alternative grazing management etc.. There definitely seems to be a willingness out there to look at alternatives to the 250kg/ha nitrogen, ryegrass golf ball grazing route
I'm attaching a picture of the mixture I used, it was the only one I could get quickly at the time. I don't think the sainfoin established or at least I can't make it out in the sward.

funkey_monkey · 21-06-2021 12:05pm

I presume that is a grazing mix - can you take a cut from it?
Also a question - when the seed mix states it is a grazing mix or silage mix - just how definitive are these designations?

Pinsnbushings · 21-06-2021 1:36pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

I presume that is a grazing mix - can you take a cut from it?
Also a question - when the seed mix states it is a grazing mix or silage mix - just how definitive are these designations?

Where I showed it won't be suitable for cutting so will be purely grazing. I'd say you could cut it but from what I hear it's very important to get it wilted because it is a higher moisture content. Also maybe cut a little higher to protect some of the different plants.
Some good info on DLF and germinal seeds websites and also the asa had a webinar recently.
I wouldn't get too hung up on grazing or silage mixtures particularly of it's all ryegrass being sown. But dunno what others think on that.

Pinsnbushings · 21-06-2021 1:37pm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Yeah, i'd be interested in this thread also. Trying to get some clover into the ground here on the cheap so mixed 10kg of clover seed into a slatted tank of slurry and spread onto 10 acres a few days after silage taken off almost 3 weeks ago. Be interesting to see the result, ideal conditions at the time and afterwards, moisture and warmth, but dare I say it, ground is gone very dry here now.....

Sounds like a good plan,and won't cost the earth if it goes wrong.

Anto_Meath · 21-06-2021 2:23pm

For the last 3 years if I am spreading fertilizer on bare ground I sometimes put in a bag of hayseed into the spreader with a tonne of fertilizer. You can defiantly see an improvement in the clover coverage on the fields that have been done. Really impressed with a silage field I done in 2019, there is a very heavy swart on it this year for cutting and it is full of clover.

funkey_monkey · 21-06-2021 2:32pm

Would the seed to be lying in the slurry above the soil surface with that method? I'd be concerned about the seed lying in dried out slurry and not germinating.
Fingers crossed it works out for you.

blue5000 · 21-06-2021 2:44pm

Pinsnbushings wrote: »

I just saw your other thread there now dunno maybe they should be merged or keep this 1 for multi species and the other for alternative grazing management etc.. There definitely seems to be a willingness out there to look at alternatives to the 250kg/ha nitrogen, ryegrass golf ball grazing route
I'm attaching a picture of the mixture I used, it was the only one I could get quickly at the time. I don't think the sainfoin established or at least I can't make it out in the sward.

Mod note; I had a quick look at the other thread, I think we'll keep this one for multi-species swards for now, as it might interest some of the more intensive dairy lads too.

TBH I can't see what plantain has to offer.

endainoz · 21-06-2021 3:00pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Mod note; I had a quick look at the other thread, I think we'll keep this one for multi-species swards for now, as it might interest some of the more intensive dairy lads too.

TBH I can't see what plantain has to offer.

I believe plantain has deeper roots to bring up nutrients to feed the other plants. I think it's also good for compaction.

funkey_monkey · 21-06-2021 3:03pm

endainoz wrote: »

I believe plantain has deeper roots to bring up nutrients to feed the other plants. I think it's also good for compaction.

Also 20% protein.

funkey_monkey · 31-08-2021 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117473299#Comment_117473299

@jimmy G M - any sign of the seeds striking yet?

funkey_monkey · 31-08-2021 2:56pm

@Pinsnbushings - Any conclusions yet on MSS? We might be getting some done next year and I'd like to a MSS mixture. Do you know what their persistence is like compared to a std ryegrass mix?

[Deleted User] · 31-08-2021 6:35pm

@blue5000

https://www.agricology.co.uk/resources/using-chicory-and-plantain-beef-and-sheep-systems

List of benefits here

Pinsnbushings · 31-08-2021 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828351#Comment_117828351

I think it's still too early to say, but I think I'd have to be positive enough about it after the first year. It has kept in the rotation with the ryegrass with a lot less nitrogen, it has a high clover content there now, hope that will persist.

Don't know about the chicory and the plantain, not as prominent as when first sown but the composition of the sward seems to change throughout the year anyway. It's more interesting to look at than ryegrass for sure and cows seem to like it. The way I look at it now is I've saved the difference in the cost of the seeds on fert in the first year, and if they persist well and good,if not I'll still have a decent field of grass and clover.

I think I will try one of my better fields next year and see how it goes there.

Jimbo789 · 31-08-2021 8:29pm

What post emergence spray could you use that would be safe on the clover, chicory and plantain?

Pinsnbushings · 31-08-2021 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117830081#Comment_117830081

Im Not sure, I didn't spray mine and thankfully not much weeds in it..I think it's advised to sort any weed issues before sowing..i heard somewhere that some of the clover safe sprays are going to be hard to get going forward.

davidk1394 · 01-09-2021 7:31pm

Growing MSS here since the summer of 2017. The mixture in the photos was sown in April 2020. I bought a grazing mixture off DLF and I mixed chicory and plantain through it before it went into the one pass. I didn't spread fert on this since May, it will get 3 bags to the ac of 0 10 20 next week. Earlier in the year I noticed cows went back on protein but up on litres.

This photo was a paddock that was sown with MSS in June 2017. The plantain is is gone but the chicory is still going. There is more management in these swards but if managed correctly they could work in with intensive dairy.

funkey_monkey · 01-09-2021 10:01pm

So no benefit to those running sucklers?

davidk1394 · 01-09-2021 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117835568#Comment_117835568

I presume it would be very beneficial. I had it here when we had sheep and found it great.

funkey_monkey · 01-09-2021 10:35pm

What additional management do they need? The plantain doesn't seem to have much longevity. Do they suit tight grazing or do you need to move stock on earlier?

Markcheese · 01-09-2021 10:55pm

Would it work to stitch in a small amount of seed mix every year or 2 - to keep the amount of less persistent plants up - ?

Pinsnbushings · 01-09-2021 11:45pm

Looks great David. How much fert did you apply in the spring? Did you spread any slurry on it over the summer? I found that protein dropped when cows grazed mine aswell.

Great clover in the older sown sward. Would you look to add back the plantain or are you happy enough with how that sward is performing now?

davidk1394 · 02-09-2021 8:37am

I'm still learning by trial and error. Teagasc had very little advice for me. When it was set it got 3 bags to the ac of 10 10 20. This year I spread 3 bags of CAN on it up until May. It will get 3 bags of 0 10 20 in a few days. It got no slurry only parlor washings.

I found during the summer it would have to be grazed every 16 days so the chicory won't go stemmy. I will sow more next year but I will reduce the amount of chicory and plantain in the mix. When it was growing I was worried the chicory and plantain would smother the grass. I found it has to grazed tight

I was considering over sowing the chicory or plantain into existing swards but I don't think it would be beneficial. I will have to do a cost analysis next year when I am better set up. The cost of spreading fert on normal grass and the tonnes of DM/Ha vs the MSS where you save the fert but do you loose output.

funkey_monkey · 02-09-2021 1:22pm

Would you be able to get the bulk in it for silage?

We are looking to do some reseeding but at the minute it is looking like a ryegrass mix with some clover mixed in.

davidk1394 · 02-09-2021 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837720#Comment_117837720

It's not supposed to be grown for silage just for grazing.

Reggie. · 03-09-2021 10:20am

Sowing some mixed species myself in a 1 acre calf paddock here in a week or two. Paddock was reseeded twice and gras never did well so chancing the mixed species on it

jimmy G M · 03-09-2021 9:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117473299#Comment_117473299

Sorry lads only seeing this now.....

Anyway my "method" was a complete waste of time and money.... I cannot honestly say that I saw any clover at all as a result if the way I did it and I checked carefully from aprox 10 days after spreading and for a few weeks more after that.

It may have been the dry weather but most likely the seed not making contact with the soil as someone said.

Next year after silage I am going to get someone in to stitch in the clover with a guttler machine or similar...

Anyway Ill chalk it down to as a learning experience...

Water John · 03-09-2021 9:58pm

The slurry acid might have botched germination? Another possibility is that the clover might turn up next year.

If ground was bare next year. I would think simply broadcasting the clover and rolling it in may work. Also go with a selection of clovers with different leaf sizes and root depth.

I think farmers will have together develop the knowledge base on the growth and management of these swards. UCD is a trial resource.

Reggie. · 03-09-2021 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844205#Comment_117844205

Could be just better to get it stitched in and use a proven method

Multi species swards

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