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F1 2021 Round 12: Belgian Grand Prix



  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭ barryribs

    That was a big middle finger to the fans, and adds more ammunition to the FIA's determination to remove races from Europe. Cars should have run for some length of time, even Perez said it had improved after a lap and a half, if we have to #BelieveAllDrivers. The risk of running 15/20 laps behind the safety car would have been minimal, and then make a decision based on the standing water.

  • Registered Users Posts: 705 ✭✭✭ tigerboon

    Didn't Prost win one of his titles by half a point. Don't know the details but probably a stopped race.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,965 ✭✭✭ kksaints

    No, he lost the 1984 championship to Lauda by half a point. The Monaco Grand Prix was stopped because of rain before half distance with Prost winning ahead of Senna in his rookie season. It was 9 points for a win back then.

  • Registered Users Posts: 36,510 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy

    Don’t do that glorified paddy’s day parade for two laps at the end which to me was just a box ticking exercise. And given that Sergio Perez put it in the wall before the race, there was nothing to stop a driver doing that at the end.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭ quokula

    Exactly, they could easily have tried to run that race. If they’d kept running behind the safety car at the beginning they would have cleared enough of a dry line to get racing, Max (who had the most to lose if the race was started under dangerous conditions) was very clear that there was actually plenty of grip and the only complaints others had were visibility, something that was exaggerated by being bunched up behind the safety car and something that has existed for every wet race in the history of F1 and drivers have always just gotten on with it. Between field spread and a dry line starting to appear the visibility issues would have been manageable.

    And if they did another ten laps or whatever behind the safety car and indications were that it wasn’t drivable, then at least they could say they’d made an honest attempt to run the race.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,064 ✭✭✭✭ flazio

    Lightning didn’t ask for a "Don't" they asked for a "do"

    Seriously, we had a mad and brilliant qualifying on Saturday. Considering the two major incidents with Lando and the W Series racers just this weekend which wasn't too dissimilar to the incident that injured Jack Aitkin earlier this year and of course the tragic accident with Antoine Hubert a couple of years ago there was no way you could let F1 cars run through Eau Rouge and Radion in its current layout at racing speeds in those conditions. The marshals aren't available mid week owing to being just volunteers, not to mention the disruption to the surrounding road network on a workday.

    So you tell me how do you make the efforts made in qualifying count for something in these conditions?

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭ Harika

    Another point why FIA was listening to drivers is what happened on Saturday. Vettel complaining the situation is bad, two minutes later he spot checks landos crashed car.

    Verstappen himself complained about visibility behind the safety car from the little spray he experienced.

    Hamilton claiming not seeing the lights of the people ahead of him.

    A delay to Monday not possible and moving it to November? Good luck with the weather then.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭ LollipopJimmy

    Why are people talking about developing a dry line behind the safety car? A dry line won't appear when it's still lashing, there wasn't a dry minute all day.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    Yeah I don't think it was a good deal for the fans. But a legacy track like Spa isnt necessarily flush with money. They can't turn to their people and tell them they have a massive hole in the budget because they gave refunds to the fans this year. They bore all the costs of holding a race and having all the fans, facilities, services, staff and all the rest, so it would have been very difficult to then hand refunds to attendees.

    It's not good for the attendees, it's just the realities of the situation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    The safety car is a total advertisement job. There's absolutely no need for an actual physical safety car. They could just set a time for the lead driver and have the same rules for staying with the lead car.

    The physical safety car could be an actual f1 car which is set up for wet weather. It could be capable of doing 120%, (for example) of an f1 lap and keeping the field bunched up but still stopping them racing.

    The actual physical safety's is primarily about selling the rights to Mercedes or whoever else to run a road car as an advertisement.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,078 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw

    Be...cause... some people who have no business driving cars at those speeds at that circuit crashed...??

    Without the Halo we would've seen the first death in the joke that is the W Series. It looked like oil during a motorcycle race but it was one driver making a mistake and the rest reacting badly to it. There are levels to everything and a series set up for people who can't make it by themselves will often end up with dire consequences.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,064 ✭✭✭✭ flazio

    So much wrong with what you just said there but I'm not going to unpack and move on to then ask about Lando Norris,

    both Martin Brundle and Mark Webber said that the angle of impact saved him from injury in that smash. Do you reckon, despite currently sitting third in the championship, that he's unworthy to sit in a race car? And that 4 time world champion Sebastian Vettel is a snowflake for calling for a red flag?

  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭ barryribs

    Don't need a dry line, just to clear the standing water

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭ Joeface

    I don't actually care that the race wasn't run, It would possibly have ended up been red flag after red flag . The "rooster" tail from an F1 car is very different from the safety car and there was a lot of standing water , it would just have been a Grinder for car parts. Probably fun to watch but not a race either .

    No Points or Podiums should have been awarded for that . that is the main Farce . George Russell can be happy with a free Podium and Williams with points , actually Double points 2 weeks in a row so good for them . When did Williams last do that but its still a joke . Biggest Loser of the day was Perez , he gave 1/2 points bump to people below him.

    Maybe only the teams should have got points and none to the Drivers . I don't know just seemed pointless giving race points to the drivers when the didn't race.

    Currently looks like Rain for Zandvoort so hopefully they can avoid this there ...maybe bring the mentioned Monsoon Tires not that it will help

    Post edited by Joeface on

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,705 ✭✭✭✭ klose

    Seeing as the track was so long any hope of getting a dry line was impossible, 3+ odd minutes a lap behind the safety meant no chance of that. The issue wasn't the track conditions per se anyways it was the vast amount of spray being kicked up from the cars. To have started the race would have been a disaster.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,078 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw

    The W series crash is the one I was referring to with drivers having no place in that situation. Without the halo we would have seen fatal consequences to the folly that is that series.

    Norris made a mistake. It wasn't aquaplaning, he just reacted slowly/late to the car getting away from him.

    Ah here we go, throwing "snowflake" into it, was wondering how long that would take. Vettel was being a little bitch. Bit of an older word instead of "snowflake" if that's ok.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭ MadYaker

    All the drivers apart from Max felt the conditions were inappropriate for racing but they’re all little bitches according to you? Which team do you race for again?

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  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 12,967 ✭✭✭✭ antodeco

    Same as Schumacher when he crashed into the back of Coulthard? I agree, that Schumacher fella should never have been allowed race again with being a terrible driver.

    Or when Hamilton crashed out in Germany in the wet? Again, terrible driver, shouldn't be allowed race

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,078 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw

    Read the posts ffs. It was in qualifying when Seb called for the red we were talking about.

    Which team do you drive for? You sound like a spurned X Factor contestant.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,078 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw

    Jesus Christ, people seem to have an awful problem with context when reading posts today. Are you trying to say that the clown show in the W Series had anything to do with visibility? Because I saw the replays pretty **** clearly.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭ MadYaker

    I have no idea to be honest. The rain only got heavier as the afternoon went on.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭ MadYaker

    I don’t race for any team that’s why I consider the drivers to know better than me, he called for red flags and predicted a crash because the conditions were atrocious and then it happened about a minute later and you seem to think he did something wrong?

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭ LollipopJimmy

    Its not about missing context it's more you using an aggressive tone and bringing ridiculous arguments and scenarios into everything.

    There was no real chance of a race there yesterday, the spray was never going to clear with the level of rain and that track with sections like eau rouge it would have been suicidal. Max was the only driver that wanted to go race, and he said that once while following the SC. If I was there yesterday and I nearly was but that's another story I'd have been gutted but I certainly wouldn't be blaming F1 or the drivers.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    This is it. Its very disappointing but I can't really fault anyone. I think everyone did their best and the race still couldn't go ahead.

    If I were at the race and had paid money to be there then I'd be furious bit it's not the tracks fault that the race couldn't take place either. I don't think the track should take the loss of millions of euro. So it's just an unfortunate situation for the fans.

    The fact that they awarded points is a minor issue. It just doesn't look right but its not the main problem. The main problem is the weather and the lack of visibility (or maybe the fact that cars can't safely handle that much water) and you can't really get cross with anyone about that.

    The angry old man poster above getting cross with W series and drivers being bitches notwithstanding, I think most people understand that it's just an unfortunate situation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,078 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw

    It is about context. The accident in the W Series (which wasn't brought up by me) has absolutely 0 relevance to F1 (or any other top level series for that matter). It has no relevance to the weather or visibility either.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭ recyclebin

    Would Mazepin have got half a point for fasted lap if he finished inside the Top 10? Sporting regulations just say a valid lap time and inside the top 10. So I assume yes.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭ Joeface

    No , they did mention that yesterday , I believe because it was behind the safety car it no fast lap time would be valid

    Kinda agree with Karun Chandhok as well here

    "My personal view is that FIA needs to learn from Spa & change the rules on what constitutes “a race”. I would say it needs at least 25% of laps run without the safety car to classify it as a race & award half points. If drivers aren’t allowed to overtake, it can’t be a race "

    Post edited by Joeface on