The Tipperary GAA Discussion Thread

31-07-2021 11:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689162#Comment_117689162

Limerick played a kid doing his leaving cert during the league. We didn't even risk younglads during the league. Lets call it for what it is, a shambles.

31-07-2021 11:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689182#Comment_117689182

The so called B team have actually beaten the A team in many training matches of late. They may not be playing, but this is exactly our point. Why the hell are we not picking youth with an ageing side or at least using the league to blood them?? Its completely senseless. One that could hamper Tipp hurling for years. We'll have a team of raw 22-23 year olds next year due to negligence.

formerlyET · 31-07-2021 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689161#Comment_117689161

One hit from Paudie aside in the first half, no real memorable physical stuff.

You've got to catch Waterford to nail them, I guess. Fair play to them.

Although Prunty went through the back of Bubbles (i think?) - no free!

Thems the breaks.

Yeah 2010 is long gone.

How do you think Waterford will go against Limerick?

31-07-2021 11:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689162#Comment_117689162

Cahill strikes me as a lad who likes to finish jigsaws, however, reading between the lines, I think his ultimate ambition is to manage Tipperary. It would be the biggest injustice in our long hurling history, if he never gets the chance to fulfill this ambition. His time is now.

01-08-2021 12:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689161#Comment_117689161

in 2016, we scored 2-29 in the final and the whole country marvelled at what a performance it was. In fairness, at the time it was serious scoring. yesterday, we hit 2-27 and lost by 7 points. The level has risen further. The game is absolutely rapid.

realdanbreen · 01-08-2021 12:07am

Best team won today, Best team won in the munster final. Being honest unless there are changes made at management level you could not say that there is going to be any improvement in the foreseeable future. However with the current cosy cartel including sponsors etc I can't see any meaningful changes and therefore do not see us in an all Ireland final for a few years to come.

01-08-2021 12:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689248#Comment_117689248

i reckon that sponsor you mention is gone. Sure he has had to step down off the board of Teneo, the company he founded. Plus the three year term is up this year.

Joe_ Public · 01-08-2021 12:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689205#Comment_117689205

Think they can definitely keep it close right to the end at least. Improving team and really impressed with the lads coming off the bench today. But 4 week grind has to be a big negative surely, the way they wilted a little bit towards the end of both of their last 2 games would definitely concern me. I think it's very harsh on them really.

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 12:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689257#Comment_117689257

It's harsh, but that's the qualifier route.

It might suit Waterford. Far be it from me to question their mindset but they've fallen at the big stage, at the final few hurdles more than a few times, so I think the week will help them psychologically not to overthink this. They have no choice. Rest and play. Covid regulations will keep punters away, mostly. It's a tremendous opportunity for Waterford.

I'd be very concerned at the amount of goal chances Tipp got today if I was them. That full back line has to be shored up...otherwise...

In saying that, I think they need to go at Limerick and keep going. The new rule will help, they must run and run and run. They'll need goals.

farmerval · 01-08-2021 12:19am

You'd expect that next year we'd have;

Barry Hogan in goal.

Barrett, Ronan and Barry Heffernan in the backs; to fill out six you're looking at Craig Morgan, Brian McGrath, Brian O Meara, Robert Byrnes, Paddy Cadell.

Midfield/ forwards; Michael Breen, Dan Mc, Jake Morris, Alan Flynn, maybe bubbles, Jason Forde, Niall O Meara, maybe John McGrath as senior starters with Mark Kehoe, Cian Darcy Billy Seymour, Conor Bowe filling the gaps. Billy McCarthy would be some bonus if he could return.

The most impressive thing with Liam Cahill in Waterford is the panel he has pulled together with what appeared like less to work with than we believe we have. Missing Tadgh de Burca, Iarlaith Daly, and Conor Gleeson toady and one other I can't think of, they still had a subs bench that contributed handsomely.

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 12:31am

I see the journalist Shane Brophy locked his tweets on Twitter after having a go at a county official for sending out the mid-week fixtures in the dying seconds of the game today. Brophy said it was disrespectful.

FoFo1254122 · 01-08-2021 12:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689182#Comment_117689182

Yes

in 2022 those underage players will be 24/23/22

they have never been given a real chance under sheedy

Joe_ Public · 01-08-2021 1:00am

Can't believe lads would leave Andrew Ormonde out. You can never be sure with any young player but Cian Darcys already had a fair few goes and I think Ormonde is a fella with much more potential. Like Kehoe, has the rare ability to make things happen

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 1:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689308#Comment_117689308

From any underage team you're lucky if two to three come through. Five to six is exceptional. You can't chunk out all senior experience and knowhow from a team - that's madness.

Last I heard Colin English left the panel after 2019 and plays intermediate in Cork.

Jerome Cahill opted off the panel.

Craig Morgan couldn't take the ball past a waterford corner forward from a short puck out in 2020 in the league - he has a long road of physical development ahead if he is to make it. But I think he suffers from Kilruane-itis - too soft. Connolly has been making the bench ahead of him.

Bowe is with the senior footballers - he can come back - but he didn't look the same player when it was his turn to lead the forwards at under 20. Was outshone by Ormonde.

Devon Ryan looks like he has the dog and determination along with the skill to make it - much moreso than Cian Darcy.

Ger Browne was on the bench for Cashel the other night.

You don't watch the club scene do you?

Post in a civil manner.

That is the second time you have queried same.

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 1:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689366#Comment_117689366

I like Ormonde - very clever. But the physicality question remains for Ormonde to answer for me. No doubts about his hurling.

I think Devon Ryan has the skill and the rough dog to him that makes me think he will make the grade more so than other forwards his age or close to it. Just from what I've seen.

Yeah Cian has got a fair few runs in the league. He's too similiar to what's there but also doesn't have the knack to make the ball stick up front. He's a finisher without the work rate.

i'd really hope we start looking at the likes of Jerry Kelly and working on raw products like Dan O'Meara at Kildangan.

Joe_ Public · 01-08-2021 1:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689395#Comment_117689395

Yeah, Cians been around since 2018 and is very honest and committed but lacks a gear at this level for me. Ormond could be a 2 year project yet, i think I recall lads saying the exact same thing about Kehoe this time 2 years ago but he looks ready for it now to me. Physique is something you can address at least i think.

Is Killian O'Dwyer still sticking at it? He was one I'd some hopes for, a good young left back is something we could do with, don't think it's where Barry Heffernan wants to be anyway.

01-08-2021 1:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689382#Comment_117689382

First of all, im not sure how the first point is relevant. Colin English plays for a small club in Deep South Tipperary and made the journey across the border where he attends school to play for Michelstown. As far as I know, he has returned since, but Sheehys wouldn't be a big level anyway so it wouldn't really matter if he played for Mitchelstown so long as he got games at a higher level which in Cork it would be decent enough even at tier 3. Id be surprised if Sheehys had enough to field a team on occasion. Conor Whelan faced this dilemma with the Davins
Jerome Cahil opted off the panel. Again this could be for personal reasons, or maybe he was fed up waiting in the wings. Who knows.
You mention Craig Morgan, again this is our whole argument, these players needed to get minutes in the legs during the league. They didn't which is shocking. We cant expect a lad to take to things like a duck to water after a few minutes in the league.
On Bowe, he would have been starved of ball today just as Seamie Callanan was. Cahill and Bevans got the best out of him as their whole game plan was to get him or Billy Seymour on ball.
Your judging Devon Ryan by the same standards as we are judging the previous lads you have mentioned. You've only seen him underage. You think its okay to dismiss the likes of Craig Morgan on league form, but you're happy to elevate Devon Ryan in the same sentence? Look id try both if its any consolation as that is our only option now. We simply have to go with youth in 2022 whoever is in charge. To ignore it is madness.

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 1:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689405#Comment_117689405

Physique can be addressed, for sure. Takes time and work.

Kehoe is a tall buck and always had the strength to go on mazy runs. But Ormonde can address it. I still think Forde's future is inside, and then there's Jake. So hopefully, Ormonde sticks his hand up in a serious way.

O'Dwyer is still hurling. He was in the panel in 2019. But Killian is like Craig, very small. And i don't think he has filled out yet. Not saying it won't happen. Most corner back who are not tall these days look like tanks. So there's work to be done there.

I'm disappointed Quigley didn't get more league time this year. He is a unit and a dark arts guy.

Craig Morgan's form with Kilruane when I've seen him has not been county man form.

Likewise, Jerome. Kilruane is a club that has a real block when it comes to the dark arts and the inner dog. It's all too nice there.

Colin English was playing football with mitchelstown in the intermediate championship in sept 2020 last I heard. Bowe with senior footballers. This is it what happens. Young players move on, drift away, you can't take underage success and transplant it onto senior. A lot of misguided posters on this issue.

But Colin, Craig, Cian, Jerome, O'Dywer, (Ormonde is in there this year and Connolly and Quigley) - they all got their chance to take the shirt. Craig is there two years now.

01-08-2021 1:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689417#Comment_117689417

on your last point, the counterargument is that youth should have been all tried regardless. No one would have slated sheedy if he tried to blood more players in 20 and 21, but he didn't even bother and that's where the contention is. he didn't even f**cking try.

Stacksofwacks · 01-08-2021 3:15am

...

FoFo1254122 · 01-08-2021 9:54am

who makes out the training panel for tipp

there must be 30 plus lads at training

I am interested to know those names

thanks

farmerval · 01-08-2021 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689417#Comment_117689417

I think the point is players need to be tried to know if they might make it. That's been Cahill's greatest attribute with Waterford, he appears to have tried everyone he can, missing 4-5 players yesterday he still had a potent bench.

Different strokes for different folks, our management have never been good at developing the panel. We've had lots of can't be dropped players over the last ten years.

Coming from a football club in the south I don't know who goes well in senior club hurling, but my feeling is that we tried very few in the last ten years. I feel that we've been wedded to a very particular style under Eamon O Shea's coaching. We've consistently lacked ball winning forwards, we've consistently lacked pace in the backs. I have nothing but respect for Sheedy and O Shea, etc but their time is gone, it's time for a new broom to take us forward again.

I'm following Tipp since the early eighties and the last 12 years have been great, great teams, real warriors, consistently at the business end of the championship. This team and panel owe us nothing. Hopefully most if not all the 2010 contingent will walk away now with their heads held high and reputations intact. They have been aristocrats of the game. We were the first team to start mining for goals, the first to start racking up huge scores, playing to outscore our opponents rather than negative hurling.

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 10:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689868#Comment_117689868

You don't know the panel?!?!?! That's easily accessible all year.

Ompala · 01-08-2021 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689417#Comment_117689417

Few others from underage to mention, Bryan O'Mara does look like he could slot in wing back, real pity he was injured so early this year. Billy Seymour looks like a forward that can consistently win the ball for himself, definitely worth a try. Johnny Ryan too I think would be an option in the backs, again he is light but he has the hurling for me. Max Hacket could also be another. It is important too that when rebuilding the team we find a balance between different types of players. All need to have workrate etc. but no point having 6 forwards that can score from all angles if none can win the ball in a ruck. It's something that has plagued us for years. Thats why Dan McCormack has been so important to us, particularly with Bonner getting older and his recent injuries. To add to that, Ormonde and Bowe are also two players worth looking at a lot as they have real pace, something we lack a lot in our current forward set.

FoFo1254122 · 01-08-2021 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689946#Comment_117689946

That post of mine is directed to you. Good you noticed

now can you answer it. If you can’t no worries

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689896#Comment_117689896

Sheedy tried loads of players every year in the league. Not as much as I'd like, but that's just me. To say he hasn't, is wrong.

Never been good at developing the panel? Absolutely wrong. Couldn't be more wrong. Show me the comparison of players used by different teams? Actual figures.

Dunne has been coaching team... not O'Shea... ah, lads, please.

If guys are 22 and it takes two to three years of training at the very least before you make the jump to senior hurling team then why are lads throwing their toys out of the pram? These guys are still developing?

Fact is, out of all the guys tried nobody has pulled up trees. Apart from Jake and Barry in goals (which most posters on here forget about despite goalkeeper being one of the more important positions on the field - but you'd need to know what you're talking about to realise that rather than pub talk about county boards)

Comparing the Waterford and Tipp panels and players is not a legitimate comparison. Both at completely different life cycles as a team.

Sheedy did freshen up the 2019 winning team in 2020 - three different starters. They weren't ready. Kehoe for example, was green and learned from the experience. Looks better for it this year but still nowhere near the finished product.

Cadell as well, he is getting there but still too casual in possession - still operating at an underage pace at times.

Posters are blind the realities of what's been happening. Lads don't even know the panel! And talking bringing in youth! And mapping whole underage teams into the setup like that's how it works...mother a god.

Takes time to develop players. And if you over expose a younger lad too early you'll do more harm than good.

Sheedy fast tracked youth in 2008 and it took time - and covid and all it's regulations weren't around. You had whole seasons - year in year out - with players.

Cahill and Bevans used players that have been in and out of the team and squad for years - loads of experience - and have experience with the likes of Ballygunner - going far in championship - like Peter hogan must be closer to 25 than he is 24. All those players are just that year or two older than our younger players. Apart from Mikey Kiley who is a sub. A team at completely different life cycle.

Anybody looking at managing teams and placing everything at their door for the good or bad runs happening in a county has a weak understanding of all the work that creates an inter county side and its development.

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689995#Comment_117689995

For sure, Bryan O'Mara was unlucky with injury - another talented young player being developed. We were unlucky with injuries this year - that can happen. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain everything.

Agree with all those players. Seymour looks to be aggressive enough. I'd have to see more of Bowe and Ormonde - still wonder about their aggression.

Max Hackett looks class - still very young. But seems to have the stuff. We've been unlucky with midfielders from Seamus Hennessey to Ger Browne. Hopefully Hackett can keep up his level of provement and make the leap. He's a real direct runner.

01-08-2021 11:14am

2-27 is a record for a team to score and lose a match with

I taught tipp played quiet well yesterday and cleared waterford out in midfield and from puckouts for long stages yesterday and set up some great goal chances

If shaun obrien hadnt pulled off an unbelievably lucky save,well into injury time,tipp would probably gone on to win and be marked down as deserved too.......as for blooding young players,i wouldnt know the ins/outs of it,to comment on it

formerlyET · 01-08-2021 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690153#Comment_117690153

Good points.

You'd know the waterford panel though.

Am I right in saying that a lot of those guys like Hogan, i think of most of them, apart from Mikey Kiely and Daly, have been around the panel a good many years, in and out of the panel - but would have experience and sometimes huge club experience? They're tried and developed players?

01-08-2021 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117690202#Comment_117690202

Hogan would been around a few years....daly would be in 2nd year and still u20

Kiely would be just his 1st year seeing game time(may been sub last-cant recall)....waterford would likely won the munster u20 last year,if he had been let take frees a huge talent for waterford (along side paddt fitznof the minor team) for next 10 years,id start him before fagan tbh

The most of that team is the succesful u21 team of 2016

Cahill and bevens plucked neil montgomery (scored 1-02 from bench yesterday)from relative obsurity,as they obviously identified ball winning as an issue for us....they also coaxed jack pendargast and shane bennett back to the panel,and have done huge work on paddy curren(best underage player i ever seen for waterford).......if they go back to tipp,id wish em the best,but hopefully our next manager will be likes of seanie power,not derek mcgrath

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