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N72 - Mallow Northern Relief Road [refined route options published]

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭steeler j


    cjpm wrote: »
    According to a number of local politicians on FB - Option C (purple) has been chosen.

    Yes I saw that in FB myself but nothing anywhere else


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,260 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Its a pity that they wouldn't show a bit of foresight and continue cross country to rejoin the N72 west of the ****tiest (and floodiest) bits of navigation road rather than bringing the N72 traffic onto the N20.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Its a pity that they wouldn't show a bit of foresight and continue cross country to rejoin the N72 west of the ****tiest (and floodiest) bits of navigation road rather than bringing the N72 traffic onto the N20.

    Wouldn't continuing the N72 west be very difficult and expensive due to the terrain? Once the N/M20 is in place, that stretch of existing N20 should be more than adequate for N72 traffic. It would be better to put money into upgrading parts of the N72 east of Mallow imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Was in one of yesterday’s papers that there is no funds available for the minor upgrades promised between Mallow and Mitchelstown and also between Mallow and Fermoy.


    So business as usual for the hauliers wrecking their trucks with a combination of branches and potholes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 39 neiljung




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Topographical survey tender out

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/206994/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

    The commitments to funding under the new NDP seems to be causing a pickup in pace with this. Hopefully off to ABP soon.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Limerick74


    Article in today’s Examiner on public consultation for preferred option https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40984205.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The Examiner article mangled the URL for the consultation, but full details are here: N72/N73 Mallow Relief Road – Cork National Roads Office (corkrdo.ie)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Seems a bit odd to have the new road connect to the N20 north of the hospital. It could be 500m further south which would shorten journeys from N72 west of Mallow to N72/73 east of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There may be a future plan to re-route the western section of N72 too. I wouldn’t be surprised if N72 eventually continued west from this new junction to pass north of Mallow and re-join the current road at a point west of the Racecourse, at the junction with R621.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    If the plan was to eventually continue the new Northern Relief Road south west to connect to the N72 to thesouth west, that would be easier if the NRR was further south.

    The plan should be (and most likely is) to convert the existing N20 between the new NRR and where the current N72 crosses the N20 to N72 when Mallow gets a new north/south bypass as part of the M/N20 project.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 csn453


    They can't get funding now to resurface the main street in Fermoy, what you are suggesting will never even become a disscussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Road surface in Fermoy is crap, but it has no bearing on the plans for N72 - National roads are funded by central government; county councils are responsible for streets.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I suspect there are issues around the roundabout where the old railway line begins, it's a tight squeeze there and there are houses on both sides of the line at the beginning of the route, and a continuous chain of houses for some distance. It would be a challenge to fit in a proper single carriageway there and not cause issues with adjacent landowners.

    It'd be a bigger challenge fitting in an N72 west link there, given the proximity to the railway tracks, the local terrain, and in addition to the above issues with the eastern link, you would then have 7 exits off that roundabout unless you closed one.

    Given the terrain and the road layout, the new N72 link via the hospital isn't that circuitous. If you drive through the town, you're driving east then north, now via the relief road you are driving north then east.

    My one query is the headspinning eastern tie in. Why not stop at the N73 and link down to the N72? Rather than going down to the N72 and then back up with a new link to the N73.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 friday one


    I suspect this is to ensure that they do not interfere with the potential M20 alignment/new junction.

    It is indeed strange and will actually add time on to local traffic that will be travelling to Mallow on the old road...



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    What's going on here? Why would this be shelved?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Section 24 of the Roads Act 1993, as amended, says:

    24. The Minister may, subject to such conditions as he sees fit, in each financial year make grants, to such extent as may be sanctioned by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas towards—

    (a) the capital and current expenditure of the Authority, or

    (b) the expenditure of the Authority in respect of its functions under this Act in relation to regional and local roads,

    and grants under paragraph (a) shall be made having particular regard to the maintenance requirements of national roads.

    ... so basically no reason there: it’s the Minister’s prerogative to assign these funds. But there is the condition that the Public Expenditure Minister has to sanction a budget, so maybe with so much extra being put into housing, road projects have to be cut back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    There is no shortage of money for roads, it is just being spent in the wrong places. For example, N25 Midleton-Youghal is getting €800,000 this year, that could be deferred by a year or two with no impact on the eventual delivery. Same goes for N24 Cahir-Limerick Junction which is getting €1,000,000 and N2 Rath Roundabout-Kilmoon Cross getting €750,000. Then there's the €3,000,000 for the Galway Bypass which is ridiculous while it is all up in the air.

    I've made this point before, it makes no sense bringing more projects to this stage of design if the projects which are there already aren't progressing as well. The more advanced projects need to be moved on too, otherwise we'll have lots of projects hitting ABP at the same time and they won't be able to deal with them all. Then after taking unnecessarily long to get through ABP, we'll have lots of "shovel ready" projects which will create another bottleneck and further delays.

    Plenty of money there, it just needs to be focused on 4 or 5 projects and get them to construction. The money is being spread too thin. The likes of the Mallow Northern Relief Road and N52 north of Tullamore are ideal projects to push ahead with now, (relatively small, straightforward, not controversial, etc.) but they are essentially stalled while projects which might not happen this decade, if at all, get lots of money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Having lots of shovel-ready projects is not a bottleneck. It’s the desirable situation. That way, when budget allocations change (either up or down), you can pick a different project to start from the list of ready-to-go jobs. ABP is the bottleneck, but ABP is being restructured, and one of the new changes is that processing of planning will now be time-limited. The new Planning and Development Bill will restructure APB this, and and also place higher entry conditions on Judicial Reviews. This should pass later this year: it is really needed to deal with the housing crisis, but road projects get benefit from it too..

    No actual reason has been given for the cut on this project. The Minister knows, and I am very sure that the Council either already knows or was told the reason, despite the public-facing excuse of “oh the Minister took away our money”. The most likely reason to have a funding cut is not spending the funds already allocated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The problem is that projects aren't getting to the "shovel ready" stage. Lots of projects are being funded through the early stages of design but then funding is significantly reduced as they approach being ready for ABP. The same has happened recently with N2 Ardee-Castleblayney and N/M11 to J14.

    Instead, more projects are being funded to start at the beginning (e.g. N25 Midleton-Youghal) despite those further ahead not progressing. It remains to be seen if these new projects will be funded right through to ABP in a timely fashion or if they too will have funding reduced as they are approaching an ABP-ready state.

    It seems likely that some projects will have to wait their turn to go to ABP as even with restructuring, they wont be able to handle several years worth of projects being dumped on them in a short period of time. Projects will have to be submitted over a longer period of time, it makes sense to start that now rather than funding more projects to a pre-ABP state and leave them sitting for a few years, as would appear to be the plan for the Mallow Northern Relief Road.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    You mightn't have seen it yet but I just made a thread to discuss this very issue, we'll continue the discussion there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Saw it after posting and was typing a post there while you posted here!



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Phase 2 Options Selection completed. 2023 grant allocation was to meet the commitments at the time of grant announcement and not to enter new commitments. It was therefore not possible to progress scheme to the next Decision Gate. Cork County Council submitted a request to TII for an increase in the allocation to allow progression of the scheme. The request was referred to Department of Transport however there is no change in scheme status at present.. Multiple representations/queries received from elected reps. 

    7 years in planning and the bike salesman won't let it go to ABP. Absolute pisstake with this one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Yep. He doesn’t have the power to veto schemes, so anything requiring his signature sits on his desk as long as he wants instead. As good as a veto for the lifespan of this government.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork County Council have withdrawn their pre application consultation with ABP for this scheme.



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