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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • #4292
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,506 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Home page on RTE this morning.

    Nothing but never ending covid fear porn

    555927.JPG

    https://www.rte.ie/


    And the news page also has never ending covid gloom

    https://www.rte.ie/news/

    Surely the covid only page has nothing but fear mongering given what we are being told here
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/

    That's one day.

    Have a look at the previous 500 and come back to me.


  • #4293
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Busy. is it peer reviewed?

    Yes.

    As is this one.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-75629-x
    Note the chart below where positive is defined as CT over 37. Also note that the HSPC defines a CT of 30 as being weak positive, where an asymptomatic individual will not be reported as positive or contact traced.
    555938.JPG


  • #4294
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deeper Blue wrote: »
    That's one day.

    Have a look at the previous 500 and come back to me.

    The day after a collective sh*t attack here about RTE fear mongering. Surely if it was that bad it would still be reflected there the very next morning


  • #4295
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,506 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The day after a collective sh*t attack here about RTE fear mongering. Surely if it was that bad it would still be reflected there the very next morning

    At this stage I'm just assuming you're an RTE employee.

    At least I hope you are because there's no other reason why someone would post such blinkered idiotic nonsense.


  • #4296
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deeper Blue wrote: »
    At this stage I'm just assuming you're an RTE employee.

    At least I hope you are because there's no other reason why someone would post such blinkered idiotic nonsense.

    Nah mate. Just can’t let the “blame the messenger” schtik lie just because they only want to hear happy thoughts. Things are good and getting better. Does not mean we should not listen to potential warnings. I ignore most of them as there is little new on offer, but in fairness there was reason to be cautious about the delta variant. The data is now telling us, get those second doses out and it will be grand. Doesn’t mean it should be ignored


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  • #4297
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,046 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Deeper Blue wrote: »
    At this stage I'm just assuming you're an RTE employee.

    At least I hope you are because there's no other reason why someone would post such blinkered idiotic nonsense.

    Picking one single point in time and pretending that it disproves a wider issue is just unreal, its crazy that it even needs to be pointed out.


  • #4298
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Home page on RTE this morning.

    Nothing but never ending covid fear porn
    ............

    https://www.rte.ie/


    And the news page also has never ending covid gloom

    https://www.rte.ie/news/

    Surely the covid only page has nothing but fear mongering given what we are being told here
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/
    There is a wonderful thing called the "off button" If RTE triggers you so much then stop looking at it.

    I disconnected my TV years ago. Don't watch
    RTE or read its website. (apart from the Toy Show with the kids) I get my news from multiple online sources. And I decide when I want to rwad the bad news, which invariably fills up news coverage.
    Its the nature of the business.


  • #4299
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,059 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    Home page on RTE this morning.
    How long are you banging this drum?
    Clearly you don't like it so why keep visiting the site or listening to their news?


  • #4300
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    eagle eye wrote: »
    How long are you banging this drum?
    Clearly you don't like it so why keep visiting the site or listening to their news?
    Think you may have quoted the wrong poster there, e_e.
    raind isn't one of the ones who are painfully glued to RTE.


  • #4301
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    RTE are our national broadcaster and whether some of us like it or not they are very influential. For a lot of the nation, particular in the more elderly, it's likely their only source of news and information.

    Now you would think the national broadcaster in the EU country with highest vaccine take up in the elderly groups and the lowest average age of population would have regular experts or their own journalists on their shows to question against the need for such harsh restrictions but you'd be wrong. You'd be numerous times more likely to have people on the airwaves looking for even more harsh restrictions to be implemented here than against. I think it's reasonable for posters here to highlight and question this.


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  • #4302
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,046 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Klonker wrote: »
    I think it's reasonable for posters here to highlight and question this.

    No, because early this morning Covid was not the headline on the website.

    (It is right this very minute, but thats different because of reasons)


  • #4303
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    eagle eye wrote: »
    How long are you banging this drum?
    Clearly you don't like it so why keep visiting the site or listening to their news?

    Him and his ilk cant help themselves. It's their misery porn and they're hoplessly addicted.

    They spend their day scouring the web for any scrap of negative news and then fervently post it here and moan orgasmically..

    It's a bizarre paradox these poor souls are living.


  • #4304
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,411 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    ginoginelli wrote: »
    Him and his ilk cant help themselves. It's their misery porn and they're hoplessly addicted.

    They spend their day scouring the web for any scrap of negative news and then fervently post it here and moan orgasmically..

    It's a bizarre paradox these poor souls are living.

    The poster is actually pointing out the opposite to that. That things aren't actually all bad. You guys agree with each other!

    Three or four posters in a row there have missed the point of what Raind is trying to say.


  • #4305
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    https://twitter.com/stapalato/status/1404502055172050945?s=19

    A thread with a little more detail from the hse antigen test working group.

    "TL:DR - PCR remains the gold standard for detection of SARS-CoV-2. Missing virus present at low levels, as antigen tests often do, can miss seriously ill, infectious, or pre-infectious individuals. Performance in real world significantly differs from manufacturers data. "

    "In meat processing plants, antigen test sensitivity was 51.9% compared with PCR. Looking at asymptomatic individuals with Ct values <=30 (equating to substantial viral load), test sensitivity of 68.9% did not meet WHO acceptiblity criteria (≥80% sensitivity)"

    PCR always be the method others are compared to because it is the gold standard. New methods will always be compared to the gold standard. That is the most accurate way of measuring an analyte.

    The downfall of PCR is that its "too sensitive ". There are procedures and protocols in place to reduce these incidences, yet the line of false positives being a significant factor in cases and prolonging restrictions is still trotted out. Its not true.

    Here are findings that asymptomatic people in meant palnts with high viral loads were missed by antigen tests.

    People and "experts" can debate til the cows come home. Its not going to change the results that people don't want to hear. There's the data. There's the findings. This is why decisions and policy are based on real world scientific data.


  • #4306
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    The poster is actually pointing out the opposite to that. That things aren't actually all bad. You guys agree with each other!

    Three or four posters in a row there have missed the point of what Raind is trying to say.

    What Arghus said.

    Both those who are offended by every single bit of news that does not focus on the positive and those who are offended by anyone looking at anything with a positive slant need to stand back and look at where we are with just a smidgen of objectivity


  • #4307
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/stapalato/status/1404502055172050945?s=19

    A thread with a little more detail from the hse antigen test working group.

    "TL:DR - PCR remains the gold standard for detection of SARS-CoV-2. Missing virus present at low levels, as antigen tests often do, can miss seriously ill, infectious, or pre-infectious individuals. Performance in real world significantly differs from manufacturers data. "

    "In meat processing plants, antigen test sensitivity was 51.9% compared with PCR. Looking at asymptomatic individuals with Ct values <=30 (equating to substantial viral load), test sensitivity of 68.9% did not meet WHO acceptiblity criteria (≥80% sensitivity)"

    PCR always be the method others are compared to because it is the gold standard. New methods will always be compared to the gold standard. That is the most accurate way of measuring an analyte.

    The downfall of PCR is that its "too sensitive ". There are procedures and protocols in place to reduce these incidences, yet the line of false positives being a significant factor in cases and prolonging restrictions is still trotted out. Its not true.

    Here are findings that asymptomatic people in meant palnts with high viral loads were missed by antigen tests.

    People and "experts" can debate til the cows come home. Its not going to change the results that people don't want to hear. There's the data. There's the findings. This is why decisions and policy are based on real world scientific data.

    I fear this “debate” will continue to circulate as some refuse to listen


  • #4308
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Martina1991 wrote: »
    People and "experts" can debate til the cows come home. Its not going to change the results that people don't want to hear. There's the data. There's the findings. This is why decisions and policy are based on real world scientific data.
    I'm not qualified to comment on the science, but how are multiple other countries using antigen tests while Ireland appears to be an outlier?

    I notice that the Germans appear to be using these tests in places where you wouldn't normally be tested e.g. gyms, restaurants - what's wrong with that? Worst case they miss a positive case (which would have been missed anyway), best case they detect some cases.


  • #4309
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I fear this “debate” will continue to circulate as some refuse to listen

    I'm not going to debate the scientific data because I'm not a scientist but is it not pretty clear that scientists in other countries have come to a different conclusion regarding PCR tests than ours? So its hardly a clear cut debate.


  • #4310
    ednwireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,765 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not qualified to comment on the science, but how are multiple other countries using antigen tests while Ireland appears to be an outlier?

    I notice that the Germans appear to be using these tests in places where you wouldn't normally be tested e.g. gyms, restaurants - what's wrong with that? Worst case they miss a positive case (which would have been missed anyway), best case they detect some cases.

    i think this is the heart of it ! here is oh its not good enough pcr only, whilst other countries have taken the approach that yes you may miss cases but you wouldnt have tested them without antigen tests.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • #4311
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    hmmm wrote: »
    Worst case they miss a positive case
    Worst case, they tell someone they don't have covid when they do. That is the concern.
    (I think it's about 3/10 people they tell they don't have covid when they do, assuming the test is administered correctly.)


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  • #4312
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not qualified to comment on the science, but how are multiple other countries using antigen tests while Ireland appears to be an outlier?

    I notice that the Germans appear to be using these tests in places where you wouldn't normally be tested e.g. gyms, restaurants - what's wrong with that? Worst case they miss a positive case (which would have been missed anyway), best case they detect some cases.

    I haven't looked at what other countries did as far as trialls before implementation. I'd guess that many went from the manufacturers sales pitch to handing them out to he public without thorough review. This is what the UK did.

    When hospitals fill up and governments want to act fast, they skip independent scientific review in the settings they deploy the tests and believe what the manufacturers claim.

    I'm not saying use pcr for gyms, restaurants etc. I dont think we need antigen tests in these settings at all. I think it's a waste of resources and gives people a false sense of security.

    With cases and hospitalisations still falling. Vaccine rollout accelerating and restrictions easing anyway, I don't think we need to waste time on a blunt ineffective tool.


  • #4313
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Worst case, they tell someone they don't have covid when they do. That is the concern.
    (I think it's about 3/10 people they tell they don't have covid when they do, assuming the test is administered correctly.)
    The point is that they are being used in places where we currently have no testing.

    It doesn't matter if they only detect 50%, or 10% of cases, currently we are detecting 0% of cases in those locations.

    You can argue about whether the cost is worth it, but I'm not the one paying for it and you can decide yourself whether it is worth it. It's becoming a bit redundant now as vaccination numbers increase, but if a restaurant charged me an extra 5 quid because they want everyone to have an antigen test I'd give them my business.


  • #4314
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,765 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not qualified to comment on the science, but how are multiple other countries using antigen tests while Ireland appears to be an outlier?

    I notice that the Germans appear to be using these tests in places where you wouldn't normally be tested e.g. gyms, restaurants - what's wrong with that? Worst case they miss a positive case (which would have been missed anyway), best case they detect some cases.

    I think the theory from nPHEt is that if paddy Irish man gets a false negative from an antigen test he will start licking windows and slobbering over the face of whoever who he meets on the street

    The rest of the globe use antigen tests because the citizens are more trustworthy


  • #4315
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,765 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nah mate. Just can’t let the “blame the messenger” schtik lie just because they only want to hear happy thoughts. Things are good and getting better. Does not mean we should not listen to potential warnings. I ignore most of them as there is little new on offer, but in fairness there was reason to be cautious about the delta variant. The data is now telling us, get those second doses out and it will be grand. Doesn’t mean it should be ignored

    Wow

    You ignore most warnings but completely support restrictions

    That’s an interesting one

    Which warnings do you follow?

    Or how do you decipher what warnings are worthy


  • #4316
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    The main concerns I heard expressed about Antigen tests is the unreliability of people conducting the tests on themselves. If they are done by people who know how to do it properly then they are a good measure, which is how a lot of businesses are screening their staff.


  • #4317
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not qualified to comment on the science, but how are multiple other countries using antigen tests while Ireland appears to be an outlier?

    I notice that the Germans appear to be using these tests in places where you wouldn't normally be tested e.g. gyms, restaurants - what's wrong with that? Worst case they miss a positive case (which would have been missed anyway), best case they detect some cases.

    Germany (Berlin at least) are using antigen tests for access to these services which is far more restrictive than here. And they also tell anyone with symptoms not to go to the antigen test centres but get pcr instead. Now the accuracy of antigen tests was established with testing on symptomatic individuals so automatically you are reducing the effectiveness. In this sense the German approach is actually a bit muddled unless you are taking them daily. As part of ongoing monitoring supported by pcr antigen test will pick up additional cases. As a one off test for those with no symptoms they are of minimal value however as in that scenario they will miss as many cases as they detect. For every one case traced you will another running around thinking happy days.


  • #4318
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Wow

    You ignore most warnings but completely support restrictions

    That’s an interesting one

    Which warnings do you follow?

    Or how do you decipher what warnings are worthy

    Way to completely misunderstand and misrepresent


  • #4319
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Surprised there is no outrage about the mass gathering of protesters in Dublin today.
    Must be that they weren't drinking ha.


  • #4320
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Surprised there is no outrage about the mass gathering of protesters in Dublin today.
    Must be that they weren't drinking ha.
    They're not from Dublin!


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  • #4321
    ZX7R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They're not from Dublin!

    The protest is in Dublin!


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