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Space X

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  • #2


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    I am still not clear on the answer - the Starship (in the guise that reached 10 km and returned to earth a few weeks ago), will that be capable of putting a payload into orbit and then return to a soft landing on earth?
    No because at this stage it's still an empty shell with just enough fuel and engines to get above the bulk of the atmosphere. Later versions will have more engines and gizmos and seats and stuff.

    Even if it was Single Stage To Orbit it would be with Zero payload and no margin, and even then I'd doubt it.

    One configuration with extra engines might be able to do 10,000km hops for the military.


    5pTXsxV4YMqxRyLcKU26EL-970-80.jpg.webp
    There's a picture around of a starship like craft with several trucks with the Red Cross symbol on them , because what other military use is there ? - ICRC will be very annoyed.

    https://www.icrc.org/en/document/emblems
    The use and misuse of the red cross, red crescent and red crystal emblems is clearly defined in law. The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols contain several articles on the emblems.


  • #2


    Poulgorm wrote:
    I am still not clear on the answer - the Starship (in the guise that reached 10 km and returned to earth a few weeks ago), will that be capable of putting a payload into orbit and then return to a soft landing on earth?


    Not without the booster


  • #2


    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?


  • #2


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?


    Pork barrelling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel


  • #2


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?
    As mentioned political reasons, but also:
    Starship doesn't exist yet and has never made it past 10k, it will eventually but progress will be slow, and more slow once you start advertising it as for cargo and way slower once you want people on it.
    SLS uses known tech that works and works really well, the engines are solid and preform well as do the recycled shuttle ones. They are putting people on it on mission 2, it might be mission 200 before starship has a person.
    SLS was in development hell for forever, and political winds change, long before spaceX was even thinking about starship.


    Could SLS have been better for sure, but it's essentially ready, people are working on it and it works let's use it. Also better to have companies and contractors working rather than letting knowledge slip away because the machine guy took a different job. None of this ideal.


  • #2


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?
    Pork barrels and corporate welfare.

    It's money for old rope.


    The SLS is built from flight proven Space Shuttle left overs. Literally.

    Using RD-25 engines that have already gone to orbit.
    And SRB segments that have flown before om a total of 40 missions


    The current iteration of SLS can put about the same payload into LEO as you can for $150m (retail) with a Falcon Heavy vs $146 million for each new RS-25 engine and SLS uses four of them.

    SLS has a cyrogenic upper stage but it can trace it's history back to the early 1960's.

    The service module is imported from Europe. It's derived from the ATV cargo craft used to support the ISS.


    Even the R&D was already done because of the billions spent on previous projects like Shuttle-C Aries Constellation CaLV etc. etc.



    SLS is cobbled together from off the shelf flight-proven hardware and is insanely over budgeted so there is no excuse for failure other than corporate greed.


    It's money for old rope.

    /RANT


  • #2


    jogdish wrote: »
    They are putting people on it on mission 2, it might be mission 200 before starship has a person.
    SLS was in development hell for forever, and political winds change, long before spaceX was even thinking about starship.
    SLS block 1 and Falcon Heavy can put similar loads into LEO.

    You have to compare Starship to future versions of SLS. Even then since Starship can be refuelled it could take twice the payload that SLS block 2 can onwards.

    Dragon can navigate and dock with the ISS. So you could assemble larger payloads in LEO. Crew don't need to fly up on Heavy or Starship.
    Could SLS have been better for sure, but it's essentially ready, people are working on it and it works let's use it. Also better to have companies and contractors working rather than letting knowledge slip away because the machine guy took a different job. None of this ideal.
    The knowledge had for the most part already slipped away and had to be reinvented. SLS is so delayed it's already lost some of the missions that justified it's existence.

    Until it flies we don't know if it's ready. SLS is not Apollo, there isn't the same national pride , cold war "not on my watch" work ethic involved. And Boeing have had inexcusable issues with software and hardware on aircraft and spacecraft recently.

    Thanks to modern technology like 3D printing and better robot welding and not needing reusability each engine now costs more than an entire rocket that can do a similar job :confused:


  • #2




    Not sure how I missed this- but excellent eye candy at the potential orbital test flight.

    It's going to be some spectacle whenever it gets the greenlight.


  • #2


    The launch tower for Starship is progressing well, up to half its finished height now...

    https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-launch-tower-half-height/


  • #2


    Super heavy booster rolling out, amazing and this is only the start. Will be insane to see sn20 atop and boosting off! This one is only for static pad tests, unclear if it will even do static fires, no engines installed as of yet.


  • #2


    Static fire for Booster potentially lined up for NET July 15! (today!)


    Aaand road closure cancelled, so won't be today.

    Post edited by Shlippery on


  • #2



    Will we get a booster static fire in the next few hours!? :D



  • #2


    current estimate, static fire in 20 mins



  • #2



    full duration (of about a second) static fire completed

    7:05 local CDT time on the video above



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